Daily Dilemma

[1marc]

Thinking about a new (used) daily...

Did think about the latest EV's via company car / salary sacrifice schemes, but really don't think I can allow it to happen. 😂 nothing really blows me away short of a Taycan Sport Turismo either. Additionally, likely to move house at some point in the not too distant future, so don't need a hit against lending capability.

Also being a tight Yorkshireman, and doing a fair few miles I don't really want to take a massive hit in depreciation - so looking at a c.£25-£30k spend.

Current thoughts are:

Porsche Panamera 3.0D (970)
Porsche Macan 3.0D
Range Rover Sport 3.0D (L494)

Anyone got any additional ideas, or reason to / not to go for one of the above?

The Range Rover doesn't seem to have the best fuel economy from what I can find on an internet search. A similar search seems to suggest the Porkers are closer to their quoted figures.

 

[IMI A]

One the best diesels Ive driven is a 2014 to 2018 Cayenne 4.2 Diesel. May be worth a look too :wink:

 

[Plumb]

I run a Macan S diesel as a daily, it mapped and that really woke it up.
It handles well, good on fuel, comfortable, it's better to drive than my 911 truth be told, my wife has a Mercedes 250d GLC, good car but nowhere near as good as the Macan though better on fuel, it seems to be getting lots of gremlins and going back to Mercedes often to be repaired where the Macan is like a Swiss watch.

I had a Range Rover Sport in the past, it was the V8 tdi, most unreliable car I've owned it was a nightmare and you couldn't trust it.

I've had an Audi Q7 V8 tdi, good car poor fuel economy and terrible to park because it was bigger than most parking bays.

Before I bought the Macan I was also looking at the Alfa Romeo Stelvio but didn't want the 4 pot motor in the diesel.

If you look at the Macan beware of the transfer box, they fail but my OPC said if it has full Porsche history they would replace free of charge, my Macan had a gearbox and transfer box last year free of charge from Porsche, only buy one with full main dealer history for peace of mind and saving you a big chunk of money if you transfer box lets go.

 

[Plumb]

One the best diesels Ive driven is a 2014 to 2018 Cayenne 4.2 Diesel. May be worth a look too :wink:

My brother in law has one, feels like a big bus, the Macan feels like a 911 in comparison.

The 4.2 is what the Q7 had and terrible on fuel, in the teens lots of the time.

 

[1marc]

Thanks both.

Re TDV8... drawing the line at 6 cylinders if it's a diesel as the economy is fairly critical. I don't want to be paying through the nose for a 4.5/5k rpm redline. 😂

Cost of ownership really needs to be reasonably low for what is essentially a boring car for boring journeys. I have petrol six and eight cylinder cars for the more rewarding drives out, when time allows :thumb:

TBH, I've been driving a couple of 4 pot diesels with around 200bhp and 53mpg. They don't seem to be lacking for the mundane stuff. Maybe I'm getting old, or just more accepting of the traffic conditions. That said, in something that is well and truly north of 2 tonnes, I think it would need to be a six cylinder car.

The Macan does seem to come up time and time again as a great all rounder, so this is a strong contender.

Also considering an SQ5 (biTDI variant) or X5 30d/40d or possibly a six / eight series with the same engine, but I think the rear headroom will be a limiting factor in the latter two. Not a massive fan of BMW interiors, however.

 

[Plumb]

The Macan S diesel is no slouch especially when mapped, I get around 35mpg out of it and 50mpg on a long motorway run.

I test drove the X5 4.0d but it's a big old bus whilst the Macan feels nimble and really handles well, next door has a SQ5 and it's on par with the Macan but not imo as good looking and interior isn't as nice a place to be.

 

[wilpert]

I had a tdv8 rr sport which I bought with 85k on the clock and used as a daily until it got to 165k and was no longer ULEZ compliant, was such a comfy beast and I was sorry to see it go.
Bought for 18k and drives for 5 years I'd say that was my best dd car I e owned.

Ever since it went I've tried to find a car that felt even nearly like it, had a macan s diesel which was comfy and quite fast but the 6 cylinder was no match for the v8 td.

sold the macan and bought a Land Rover tdv8 for the missus, even with the 4.4 litre engine it still returns just shy of 28mpg for her daily 25 mile round trip to work and is a great family or holiday car.

I still wanted something for me as a daily, so I bought a base model new defender90 hardtop, that was a base model 3.0 but only 200bhp on coil springs.
2 years later, I've sold that and got back what I paid for it even after 35k miles.

Now I'm in my new defender 90 hardtop, similar car but with bells and whistles. 250bhp air suspension and a few more refinements.
Ok, it's still a 6 cylinder but it just feels like a planted great all rounder.
The technology of the new lr defender is great and the rugged man cave chunky interior with a few luxury bits makes it the new best car I've had as a daily. These are presently fetching over the odds in used format but if you don't mind waiting 12 months as I did I'd say it's well worth it.

Best all round dd you can get imho and I don't miss my rr sport v8 as much now.

Just my two penneth.

Edit: 30 mpg on average driving and circa 35mpg on longer runs.
But factor in very strong residuals and it makes it worth it.

OR if you go for the hybrid, you've got the best of both worlds, although I suspect the 2.0 petrol might not have the torque that some want for towing or off road driving. If that's your bag.

 

[Plumb]

I had a tdv8 rr sport which I bought with 85k on the clock and used as a daily until it got to 165k and was no longer ULEZ compliant, was such a comfy beast and I was sorry to see it go.
Bought for 18k and drives for 5 years I'd say that was my best dd car I e owned.

Ever since it went I've tried to find a car that felt even nearly like it, had a macan s diesel which was comfy and quite fast but the 6 cylinder was no match for the v8 td.

sold the macan and bought a Land Rover tdv8 for the missus, even with the 4.4 litre engine it still returns just shy of 28mpg for her daily 25 mile round trip to work and is a great family or holiday car.

I still wanted something for me as a daily, so I bought a base model new defender90 hardtop, that was a base model 3.0 but only 200bhp on coil springs.
2 years later, I've sold that and got back what I paid for it even after 35k miles.

Now I'm in my new defender 90 hardtop, similar car but with bells and whistles. 250bhp air suspension and a few more refinements.
Ok, it's still a 6 cylinder but it just feels like a planted great all rounder.
The technology of the new lr defender is great and the rugged man cave chunky interior with a few luxury bits makes it the new best car I've had as a daily. These are presently fetching over the odds in used format but if you don't mind waiting 12 months as I did I'd say it's well worth it.

Best all round dd you can get imho and I don't miss my rr sport v8 as much now.

Just my two penneth.

Edit: 30 mpg on average driving and circa 35mpg on longer runs.
But factor in very strong residuals and it makes it worth it.

OR if you go for the hybrid, you've got the best of both worlds, although I suspect the 2.0 petrol might not have the torque that some want for towing or off road driving. If that's your bag.

The Macan is without a remap quite a lot quicker than the TDV8 RRS plus better on fuel, better handling less wollowy to drive but smaller... oh and a lot more reliable.

 

[wilpert]

Cannot disagree re the handling of the macan but there is just something about rr sports that people love. 🤔
Fwiw my old one didn't cost me much at all in repairs, all I fixed was a split hose and a new air suspension pump.
Not bad for 80k miles plus the 85k before my ownership. I'm thinking I took a gamble when I bought that but it paid off.

I can't lie though, when I sold it I waved goodbye to a plume of smoke and an oil patch on the drive but I virtually have it away at 3k.

The defenders are a whole new deal though, hence residuals and massive demand, although I didn't read the op,s post properly, he wants 25 - 30k so it would need to be an older high miles rr sport or a more base macan s. I'm not keen on remapping, I think it can be tough in the turbos. But im no expert.

 

[1marc]

Thanks for the input and you can see my dilemma - RR camp seem to fall into two categories... those that warn you to stay away as JLR are unreliable, and those with the exact opposite experience. Haha!

Re RRS, likely 50-80k miles. Same for a Macan, or Panamera really too.

On the RRS front, I'm really not au fait with the trim levels. Autobiography obviously the top trim level, but if a HSE dynamic has a pan roof, I'm not sure what the autobiography offers over it, or whether to keep both as options.

Same with the Macan and Panamera really, lots of options to chose from and seem to generally be middle of the road spec or base with the diesels. People ticking all the options seem to have done that with the larger displacement petrol engines (Turbo / GTS).

MPG needs to be much better than 20's to warrant the diesel smog. 👍

 

[wilpert]

We bought our landy 4.4 hse 3 years ago with just 12k miles on it, was £40k and we've done another 34k since then.
The spec apart from a couple of trimmings like the different roof lining is better than an autobiography. Mits has signature reference sound system, heating cooling seats, sliding pano roof, sidesteps, the flipping thing can even park itself if you're brave enough.

Basically it's not the trim level it's the spec that counts.
Will only do 28mpg though but it's been solid no complaints at all.

 

[1marc]

Drove a Macan S Diesel and Range Rover sport Autobiography 3.0D... hands down the Macan drove amazingly by comparison. It was quicker, and just better in every way. However the RRS wins in rear space. So would a Cayenne drive as well as the Macan?

I'm still to drive an SQ5. The one I went to see had sold.

So looks like it's hard to beat the Macan really. Have wasted tonnes of time on AT/PH/Porsche Approved looking at specs. 😂

There are the occasional very high spec cars, but they are generally higher miles too and few and far between.

The car I drove was on fixed rate dampers. I've not driven a PASM/air car yet, so I'm not sure if that would make it a better handling car, or a more comfortable ride over uneven roads. 🤷"â™‚️

Not really sure what the must have options are, but when I see a load of blank buttons, my OCD doesn't like it, so I'm wanting as much spec as possible.

 

[Plumb]

Drove a Macan S Diesel and Range Rover sport Autobiography 3.0D... hands down the Macan drove amazingly by comparison. It was quicker, and just better in every way. However the RRS wins in rear space. So would a Cayenne drive as well as the Macan?

I'm still to drive an SQ5. The one I went to see had sold.

So looks like it's hard to beat the Macan really. Have wasted tonnes of time on AT/PH/Porsche Approved looking at specs. 😂

There are the occasional very high spec cars, but they are generally higher miles too and few and far between.

The car I drove was on fixed rate dampers. I've not driven a PASM/air car yet, so I'm not sure if that would make it a better handling car, or a more comfortable ride over uneven roads. 🤷"â™‚️

Not really sure what the must have options are, but when I see a load of blank buttons, my OCD doesn't like it, so I'm wanting as much spec as possible.

When my Macan went to Porsche it's 40k service in February we were talking cars. The service guy said the Cayenne was built to be a Porsche from a Q7 and was very similar.
The Macan he said was a Q5 floor pan with a Vag engine block and everything there after was Porsche, he said look at it as a Macan was built up from a 991 and not down from a Cayenne because it has more in common with a 991 than a Cayenne.

My brother in law has the 4.2 tdi Cayenne, it feels nothing like the Macan, doesn't drive like one either.

My Macan has the air ride and switchable dampers, the ride is great (much better than the wife's GLC) and the handling is great, it has to be on sports or sports plus if pushing it on twisty roads.

I'd opt for better seats, chrono, air ride, heated steering wheel, speed limit indicator, upgraded sound system
21" turbo wheels with the air ride is better than my wife's 19" big side wall tyres an coil suspension for ride quality.

 

[1marc]

Thanks for that Plumb. Useful insight. So the Cayenne is a bit of a boat by comparison then?

I was pretty much looking for the same options as you mentioned. Wasn't a fan of the turbo wheels until I saw them up close, and actually quite like them. The pan roof would be a nice to have, but not essential. I'd rather have better driving dynamics if possible.

I've been reading mixed reviews on the chrono. But then, that's the same with PASM, so it's going to be personal preference. I think then chrono would be a good addition to allow different shift mappings under sport plus, but maybe not essential again?

I was hugely impressed with the general ride and handling on the coil springs, so really need to drive an air suspension car to see how much better that is.

All about finding the right balance of options on the used car market.

 

[MaxA]

From that list, I'd probably take the Macan, as I'm keen on small or normal sized cars, even though I know nothing about it (it's not on the radar). All I know is that the 2.0 is a GTI unit (and the wife's got one of those).

This is because I wouldn't take the Panamera, as it's frankly enormous and would be awful from the perspective of parking it, whether at home, in the office or at the supermarket (also an underground parking hall).

And I wouldn't take the RR with the 3.0td as it's an awful unit.

I have a leggy 2.7TD Discovery3 for towing and stuff, and no interest in the 4 or 5 because of those 3.0 engines: the crankshaft is under-engineered for the torque. If I'm on a run, whatever the load, I'm down to 8l/100km (I don't know what that is in sterling, but Google can help you), more like 10l if pootling around locally.