Best Upgrade from M030 Suspension

[Shalmaneser]

Worst case is I can always go back to a different set of springs, but given my engine now has to come out for a load of work, it's the least of my worries!!

That sounds a bit painful, hopefully nothing major. Seems you have quite a following here waiting to hear your feedback on your new suspension set-up. Good luck!

Well the car went in on Monday for the shocks and springs, also new top mounts. Also thought I'd have a major service done as it's pretty much due now.

Got a call advising that my oil leak had got worse, seemed to be from the spark plug tubes, both rockers and the RMS...easier to address them all with the engine out. SO while the engine is out, might as well upgrade the IMS, new clutch, water pump, AoS.

A painful invoice coming my way!!

If the rockers are coming off then 100% do the variocam slippers.

Assuming it's a 3.4

 

[coullstar]

Ohlin R&T maintenance is no small thing (as I am just discovering)

Road use - the suggested service interval is effectively 18.6k miles

BG Motorsports are main UK supplier - they quote £275 per front unit and £200 per rear unit inc VAT (then plus £20 to ship each way)

In practice, adding on labour to remove and refit, it means I'll be looking to have them serviced every 2 years with what equates to about £600 per year...

Mine are slightly overdue for a service so need to be done. I'll probably run them for a year to really evaluate what I think they are worth to me. It could be that I revert to whatever option this thread settles on(!) My car was previously on factory fitted M030 suspension, but I do love the -20mm from factory standard height drop of the Ohlins... and they do legitimately change the car into a different animal.... whether that is a £600 a year animal :dont know:

There are probably enough of us with the Ohlins R/T to each throw in some money for a 911uk set of dampers to be held by Centre Gravity (with their permission of course) so that we could drive in and drive out, with the set that we leave being sent off for service and then to wait for the next person?

Id be annoyed at spending close to £2k and having to service my dampers at less than 20k miles if Im honest. Last car had very good KW's coils that were £700 and lasted 30k+ of hard work with zero interference. Price you pay I suppose.

 

[Dammit]

Well, we can either remove and sell our Ohlins or make preparations for the service intervals to not be so much of a pain in the arse, was my thinking.

I'm not going to buy a spare set on my own, but if some other Ohlins suspended car owners wanted to chip in I think we could probably make it pretty affordable.

 

[Ghostrider78]

Well, the car will be ready to collect tomorrow lunch time, so all being well I'll be able to report on how the new dampers feel.

Thanks to all the comments on items to address whilst the engine is out. I agreed with the workshop and went with their advice on those items that should be changed. Brake pipe was fine (I think it's already been changed). I'm comforted by having addressed the IMS and a new clutch, water pump and AoS. Trouble is where do you stop? Engine mounts needed changing but I wanted RSS items and they aren't available anywhere I can find so will do those another time.

Either way, I'm hoping with all that lot, plus new top mounts, oil change etc it'll feel pretty good...fingers crossed!

 

[tob_today]

Well, the car will be ready to collect tomorrow lunch time, so all being well I'll be able to report on how the new dampers feel ... Either way, I'm hoping with all that lot, plus new top mounts, oil change etc it'll feel pretty good...fingers crossed!

Yes know the feeling, after spending all that cash you want a positive result to ease the pain and bring back the feel good factor. Fingers crossed for happy pick up. :thumb:

 

[Ghostrider78]

Ok, I'm going to try my best to describe the new Koni Special Active Dampers with H&R springs. Bear in mind I'm no racing driver or a car dynamics expert. I've had several Porsches and my go-to benchmark for this was my Cayman R. I do realise I'm also comparing new aftermarket suspension with 20 year old stuff that's well past it's best.

I collected the car earlier this afternoon, took the long way home and then drove about 60 miles around my local roads and lanes.

Suspension is a vast improvement. It feels solid but not harsh. More thumps than crashes.

Initially it felt very firm, no less firm than the M030. But after a few miles it became apparent that whilst firm, it had lost a good amount of the crashy feeling. I would describe it as feeling like the car now lands on a cushion rather than a lump of solid rubber.

On the stretch of A1 home, the difference wasn't vast but then I didn't expect much difference on this type of road. Maybe a bit more of a controlled feeling at speed and changing lanes, but not a vast difference on a smooth, straight fast road.

On my local country roads, the car now handles broken tarmac in a more respectable fashion. The car previously had a tendency to be unsettled by rough surfaces. The expansion joints on a bridge near me was a good test, the car now handles this with a dull thump rather than a jarring hit and throwing the car off track. Through the twisties you can feel the weighting up of the steering really nicely, and it feels slightly more communicative than before through the wheel.

The other really noticeable difference is on entry and through the apex of a higher speed bend. The car now feels much more composed, weight distribution feels more controlled and easier to settle the car on entry. I didn't expect this much of a difference, so very pleased with this aspect.

They're definitely still a 'sporty' ride and body roll is pretty flat, and you do still feel the road surface.

I would say, if you're looking for outright comfort these aren't it. If you want a suspension solution that you 'thought' M030 should feel like. I would recommend this one. Its almost like a more modern feeling M030.

Cost:

Damper Set from Carnewal for £700 delivered. H&R springs £250. Plus new top mounts etc. Total was just over £1,100.

Ride height:

Slightly lower than the M030, I think it looks nearly GT3 ride height. Speed bumps seem fine, but I scraped a couple of inclined ramps.

 

[tob_today]

Thanks very much for the feedback. Certainly food for thought, and several others are running H&R springs. I heard they are on firm side. At least there's some actual damping sitting behind now which is working for you. For people looking for comfort, I guess going back to standard springs & dampers is also a valid option, although I would be surprised there's not a better option after 20+ years of technology improvements, to give both more stable ride + compliance.

As always, it's very subjective and glad you are happy with your results. :thumb:

 

[911munKy]

Interesting thread, FWIW I'll post my thoughts on the slightly different route that I took...
Standard C2, I replaced the majority of the suspension components @ 93,000m and fitted M030 which improved the ride and handling but also made the ride a little bit firmer. I wasn't happy with the ride height which was pretty much the same after fitting the M030 (I guess my original springs had compressed 10mm over time) so fitted Eibach -30mm Progressive springs. These added a bit more refinement to the ride although the rear of the car seemed lower than the front slightly so I had some custom 10mm spacers made and the car now sits perfectly for me and is usable without hardly ever grounding out.
I had the car geo set close to X74 spec (needed adjustable toe arms) which gave a more focused pointy drive, however I'm still not there yet. On faster drives on bumpy roads I can sometimes get, what I think is, unacceptable bump steer [anyone else experience this on lowered cars?]. Really I need to get under the car and check all is OK and maybe soften the geo but I'll wait until the weather gets better.
It would be interesting to know the spring rates for Eibach compared to others but it seems to be a closely guarded secret as they never respond to my emails

 

[Jamesx19]

Great feedback re the Koni's.

I was surprised CG are favouring them. The 911uk test that Maldren organised with 911 and Porsche world featured a car with them and Eibach springs which sounded very harsh riding.

I suppose there are other reasons for that, not just the damper and sporting, but geo as well.

H&R spring sounds a better bet than the Eibach at any rate.

 

[maldren]

Ghostrider, you have a PM.

 

[Dagerous]

Munky I believe companies like Tarret and Elephant in the States (Possibly U.K. companies too though I'm not aware of them) do special track rods to reduce bump steer on seriously lowered cars. Mine is on Ohlins at GT3 ride height and I'm toying with going for some. X74 may be even lower though so possibly your situation is worse.

I think another possibility is to add solid 'Packers" to mount the steering rack a bit lower but I'm afraid I can't comment on the how's and why's of all of that, only that apparently once you lower beyond a certain point the 996 WILL suffer from excessive bump steer.

 

[Dammit]

X74 is a 30mm drop- GT3 ride height is lower still.

 

[911munKy]

Indeed Dammit but doesn't the GT3 have lowered subframes or some such trickery to help?
Dagerous I've seen those track rods (not cheap) but will do some more investigating first and play with the geo as others don't seem to have this issue with lowering.
Thanks.

 

[NedHan79]

Indeed Dammit but doesn't the GT3 have lowered subframes or some such trickery to help?
Dagerous I've seen those tie rods (not cheap) but will do some more investigating first and play with the geo as others don't seem to have this issue with lowering.
Thanks.

Gt3's have solid subframe bushes at the rear. These are fitted flush to the frame where as the standard bushes have 10mm of rubber between the frame and chassis. Removing this 10mm alters the geometry as well as some of the play which is part of the reason gt3's have so much feel (I'm told).

I had my own bushes made to avoid the tax as they're a simple part. I had a little help from mister corn on this one and he has a set to fit to a future project so if they're good enough for him, they're good enough for me.


Some say this is enough to 'get rid" of the toe problems when lowering the car by 30mm. Others say they don't get this issue. I wasn't sure so I opted for adjustable toe arms as well just to be sure.

There are threads on here about making toe arms for reasonable money so there's no need for expensive arms from elephant and the likes.

 

[NedHan79]

Solid gt3 spec bushes