Best Upgrade from M030 Suspension

[Ghostrider78]

Ok, so I know similar topics have been done before, but I'm struggling to find the answer to my specific question.

I've currently got a 996 C2 on original M030. The shocks are definitely past their best and the ride is a bit agricultural in my opinion and could do with being modernised a bit.

I'm looking to retain a sporty ride and better body control, but also want to improve damping performance. The car is mainly used on the road, but in a spirited manner.

I know the Ohlins R&T are the best option for performance, but I've been warned off them by one or two Indies due to the maintenance requirements of them.

I'd quite like a fit and forget option, and my local indie suggested that the Bilstein B8 with Eibacj springs will provide a similar ride height and improved performance over the M030, which I don't doubt.

My question is, how will the ride comfort and damping compare on the B8 vs the M030? Has anybody made the change and found it helped damping and comfort?

P.S. when I use the word comfort, I don't mean Rolls Royce levels of plushness, its in the context of a modern sports car. For comparison, my most recent benchmark was my last Porsche, a Cayman R which was passive dampers and 20mm lower than a standard Cayman S. So sporty, but not crashy.

 

[bakerboy4s]

Hi
Speak to Chris at Centre Gravity, tell him your needs and they will make suggestions based on years of porsche suspension experience.

 

[coullstar]

If your not going lower then Koni Special Active dampers would be worth a look.

 

[Bund]

Keep us posted on the direction you take, had a 993 that CG breathed on and probably the best handling road car I've played in.

 

[peterg1955]

Hi
Speak to Chris at Centre Gravity, tell him your needs and they will make suggestions based on years of porsche suspension experience.

^ this all day everyday... Chris has probably driven every type of replacement (and factory option) suspension in a 996 (over half a dozen in one day at Bruntingthorpe a year ago so he will give you the best advice available

FWIW he told me on the day that a well run in M030 setup was his favourite for fast road use so it may just be a case of replacing the shocks...

 

[sp1ke]

I found the team at CG to be very helpful when I was investigating suspension refresh options.

I also had conversations with both Ohlins & Bilstein customer service teams, as there were 2 versions of the Ohlins R&T manuals available online. At the time, one version stated Ohlins recommended service interval for street usage was 30k KM, where as the other stated a 60k KM interval.

Ohlins confirmed they recommended they should be serviced every 30k KM (approx 18.5k miles) & this would require removing them from the car & sending them off. The service would entail checking damper control, replacing o rings, bushings & oil, before checking the dampers on a dyno again.

The Bilstein customer services team confirmed there were no fixed service intervals for PSS10's, however they should be regularly visually inspected when the car is serviced. If need be, they can be sent back to their service centre in Leicester to be rebuilt.

I opted for Bilstein B16 pss10's in the end, they might not have the street cred of the Ohlins, or quite the same reputation for a plush ride, but all things considered they seemed to be better suited to my needs.

I suspect they might be a bit firmer than the Ohlins, but I've been happy with them. In any case, if this proved to be an issue for you, then I'm sure CG would be able to offer a softer combination of springs.

Mine previously had stock suspension, not M030, so apologies I can't comment on a comparison.

If you don't want to lower it further, then refreshing to M030 spec or trying the Koni's might be the way to go.

It's also worth digging out MAldren's suspension test thread from last year, on this forum. The full test was published in 911&PorscheWorld last year, so you may also want to order the back issue.

 

[crash7]

It comes down to use and budget, any new dampers are going to feel better than circa 20 year old kit.

B8 & M030 are going to be very very similar.

Comparing Ohlins R&T with M030 is not real apples for apples as R&T are coilovers while B8 & M030 are not.

R&T are comparable to Bilstien B16 and KW V3

When it comes to coilovers the more adjustability you have, all are height adjustable, the higher the cost.

For a fit & forget coilover I personally think KW V1's are hard to beat.

The firmess of the ride will be dicated by the spring rates, higher the rate, firmer the ride, all manufacturers will provide you with the spring rates.

 

[tob_today]

I have exactly the same question. I've got relatively good condition M030 on mine and personally it's overly firm for road use, and lacking compliance. Every passenger has said same. Or maybe I'm just getting too old for hard riding cars!

The concrete section of the M25 is a good test for any car, and the M030 really isn't a fan. So I called Center Gravity to get advice.

If your not going lower then Koni Special Active dampers would be worth a look.

This is exactly what they told me, given I said vast majority of life will be on roads, traffic, bumps, etc. Need a set-up for reality not my dreams. I asked about the other options (e.g. KW's, Ohlins, etc), and answer was these will all be compromised in one way or another for what I need.

I've talked to a few others and got similar advice, so these are now top of my wish list unless I get better advice.

 

[Ghostrider78]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I guess comparison is not quite what I'm after. I'm pretty sure that a new set of shocks whether that be OEM, B8 or Ohlins will be an improvement in many ways than 20year old stuff that's on there.

The upfront cost budget is not so much of an issue, if it wasn't for the service intervals and hassle involved with Ohlins then I'd be done and dusted with a set now. I do like to use the car both as a daily and the odd 2,000 mile type road trips across Europe and the like, so it will rack up enough mileage that means the service intervals on Ohlins will be too regular for my liking.

I'm not a fan of KW stuff, too uncomfortable for a road car IMO, and I've no experience of Koni.

I will call CG and see what they have to say, but if they think M030 is a decent road set-up then I'd be a bit wary on that front.

I'm tempted to go with the B8s in the hope that they should be a more resolved damper than the OEM, but I'd be going in a bit blind...

 

[Dagerous]

I've got the Ohlins on mine having used them to replace the 80000 mile old M030. Personally I love them BUT (And it's a big but) the spring rates are VERY high. Truth be told I suspect they should perhaps be called 'Track and Road" given they feel pretty track focused.

That said they don't (To me) feel much harsher than the M030 they replaced despite the mega stiff springs, an indication I think as to just how good the dampers are. I believe both Dammit and Malden are now running the Ohlins but with different from standard (Softer) springs which I'm sure they will be happy to comment on. Out of interest in the big 911 & Porsche World suspension test Chris Franklin (He of Centre of Gravity and the 'Tester" in the article) confirmed his favourite setup was Dammit's Ohlins setup on softer springs... and shortly thereafter I believe Malden fitted softer springs to his Ohlins...

As has been said though you would be well advised to speak to Chris at Centre of Gravity, tell him how you use the car and how you want it to feel and make use of his quite staggering level of experience.

 

[tob_today]

Have a watch of this video for feedback on KWv3 on regular roads. Set up by RPM, so done properly. Also see his previous 996 videos for the install.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1568918

Having driven an RPM CSR on KWv3's they are very impressive, and much better than M030. Just depends what you are looking for. Maybe a bit overkill for 95%+ regular UK road use, and other options offer even better compliance, but substitute track focus.

As per previous comments, just give CG a call. They are super helpful. 15 mins on phone is worth many hours of internet research & other people's opinions.

 

[IMI A]

Keep us posted on the direction you take, had a 993 that CG breathed on and probably the best handling road car I've played in.

re 993 i'd agree -best road car I've driven

 

[Jamesx19]

I've got B8's and H&R springs.

Replaced 87,000 mile MO30

My impressions are that the ride at above 40mph is spot on, damping superb the car is never wrong footed. Handling precise and liner. Hard road driving sees some roll, but not massive. To illustrate or quantify the above, I can drive very spiritedly (ahem) down C roads and unclassified roads without either the car bottoming out, or being bounced around. It seems to float over the road but the tyres are ialways in contact even over bumpy stuff. Like how I imagine a rally car might deal with the road.

For track, I imagine the springs would be too soft.

Low speed ride is tough and can be choppy. Similar to the MO30, but straight out of the box, appeared to somehow smooth off the edges of the bumps.

If you live near Brighton (not in the Covid red zone yet) happy to take you out for a spin.

 

[tob_today]

Here is a good vid from 82DVY on here (http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=139169), on his decision & views on H&R springs on standard dampers. Also suggests Eibach for similar but slightly softer ride.

 

[maldren]

I started trying to improve the rise after experiencing the sensational ride and handling on my brother's 718 Cayman. I was sure we should be able to get closer to that with modern dampers and I decided to go with Ohlins despite the cost.

Yes, I've now gone for much softer springs (they're still similar to GT3) and if ride is your main criterion, I suspect springs close to Porsche's setting would be better. I've not come across anyone who has gone that soft, I suspect we're put off by how much softer that is than the Ohlins standard Track and Road.

What we really need is Ohlins to produce a package for UK roads with softer springs and matching damping settings.

You'd be welcome to try mine (South London) although lockdown is now an issues for us. Drop me a pm.

Mike