993 C2 1994 206,000m

[Kimbo]

Proud to be grumpy, but what pisses me off is that all these lovely cars are now way out of our reach, and many of them are not even that good to drive. Good and fun to drive - isn't that the reason to buy one?


Why and how did they all get so bloody expensive??

 

[Kimbo]

Why, for instance has a 964 that could be had for years for £15k, suddenly command £45,000?

My mate has recently bought 912 for £30,000 that needs work! It's a £12,000 car!

 

[Palladium]

just been watching some youtube clips on the 959, what a car, my god.

must have been where the 993 got its lights.

there is no doubt in my mind, old school is better.

 

[langers1970]

Why, for instance has a 964 that could be had for years for £15k, suddenly command £45,000?

My mate has recently bought 912 for £30,000 that needs work! It's a £12,000 car!

Couldn't agree more, it is utter nonsense. A 964 tip targa that I enquired about in 2014 has come back on the market, currently on The Fleabay. Back then it was around £18k, being offered with the wrong wheels from the same dubious Midlands chap who was flogging the dodgy wolf in wolf's clothing 964-with-a-993 body which also resurfaced recently. Both were clearly suspicious then and have been rumbled since. The true story is revealed: it has a gippy tip which is a couple of switch flicks from the knackers yard ("don't worry - you can replace it with a manual") in addition to the clever rolling back the years technique the seller made his name for. Hence the current price of: £29,995. For a busted motor that was clearly clocked earlier in its life. And burgundy dash. Lovely.

How about this one instead:1993 RS Lightweight. 58k miles. FPSH. Admittedly LHD but a snip at £24,450. As advertised on page 124 of Porsche Knitting Patterns and Crochet World (or whatever it was called), April 2003. Depressing how many lovely cars were on offer for peanuts back then, and half of them hadn't even started to rust yet.

Things clearly went totally bonkers around the time of The Bridge, series 1. Can't quite work out why.

 

[Palladium]

hindsight is an infuriating thing. I have spent my entire life 'missing the boat'. sc were going for 10 grand 8 years ago, I remember looking and was put off by stories of expensive heat exchangers.


my tip, buy shares in shale gas companies, I wont, because I will think that they will go down in price if I buy them, lol.

 

[sam]

I believe there is a big market for 'going back'. I don't even need elec windows. Porsche should use the 3.2 chassis or 993, and make an aircooled with all the strengths learnt, rolled into one car, a basic car, but big emphasis on rust proofing, brakes, suspension and bullet proof engines. Drop all the add ons and options. keep radio/cd, make decent heating ventilation, manual sunroof. keep it as light as possible.

believe me it would sell.


p,s maybe throw in a cup holder.

Yep, and don't forget the pipe rack, ash tray and flat cap hook :lol:

 

[sam]

Why, for instance has a 964 that could be had for years for £15k, suddenly command £45,000?

My mate has recently bought 912 for £30,000 that needs work! It's a £12,000 car!

Hah, I had a 912 back in the late 60's, loved it, ran it for 2 years and then got an 11's . The 912 was light, nimble, short, great fun and was not short of power then for a Porsche, well there was nothing else till the 6 pot's anyway! never worth £30,000 though!

The 964 situation has come about because of the scarecity in the market of 993's a few years ago, and people piled into 64's which were cheap at the time, and satisfied the a/c aspiration of the punters. To be fair they were worth the money too. Makes me laugh though when some of these guy's keep trying to convince us, and sometimes I think themselves, that they are a better car than a '93....................................................

 

[MattyR]

Whilst there is no doubt that every generation of 911 is a 'better' car, what makes the 993 special... that people now realise, is that it was a distinct cut off point. It was made in the old fashioned hand-built way, which was slow, uneconomical, and not entirely governed by the accountants. The engine is a real antique.. but beautifully evolved and perfected. They literally " don't make cars like that any more" It'll never drive like a modern car... but who wants it to!?

Not only that, you couldn't make them for £40k either, so either at that price you're getting great value. All those of us that bought before the current market were indeed lucky!

I didn't buy mine for investment: I paid £30k in 2003, and expected it to depreciate slowly. The fact that it hasn't has been a bonus but a bit double edged, as I'm now conscious of not putting too many miles on her. I know that's stupid, but I can't help it... And considering that I have no pension.... it may come in useful!!

The later (996 on) will never appreciate in the same manner, no matter how good they are, because they're just another mass-produced robot-built box. (special editions excepted)

Will

this also applies to the sc, which was going to be the end of aircooling, so was over engineered as a swansong, problem was it sold so many that the natural outcome was better cars during the sc period, then another model in the 3.2, Porsche thought the future was 928 but the public wanted more, hence the 964 then 993.


I firmly believe they made an enormous error getting out of aircooling, you could bring it back with todays thinking, and technology, and easily meet the silly rules criteria.

They should bring back the original chassis with the 993 engine, upgrade the brakes and suspension, keep the car as basic as possible, call it the 911 classic.

Autofarm make one to order, its called the autofarm 911, takes a year to build and emphasis is put on a decent chassis. 100k ive heard.



p.s all aircooled were handmade

Blimey that would be fine thing indeed that '911 Classic'

 

[MattyR]

Face it. We are a bunch of old fogeys, mostly have these cars as mid-life-crisis toys and I'd wager barely more than one on this thread is much below 40, let alone 30. 911s can be done in your 20s - I had my first one when I was 27 with a smallish car loan and limited budget. I reckon anyone mid-20s might see the 996 with a clearer perspective, as affordable retro cool.

You're probably right, and I reckon a lot depends on what you grew up with. I was 12 when they launched the 993 and I saw my first one. It's been at the top of my list ever since, hence it would always the be last one to go.

Well gents, being the spring chicken of 34 years that I am, I am probably in the minority 'getting' the vintage Porsche thing. You see, I've only ever owned vintage or classic cars (with the exception of my current daily due to London round trips).

I think it's the aesthetic I've always enjoyed more than anything else. For example my old Triumph Spitfire (MKIII), with that Michelotti designed body, was a pretty car (although nothing compared to his Ferrari 166 Inter Coupe - now that is obscenely beautiful!). As a result I've grown used to a lack of creature comforts and can quite happily do without. I used to adore hooning around Hackney in my old Mini Cooper; wind-up windows, RC40 exhaust burbling away= magic. Even had a pair of driving gloves. Probably looked bloody mental!

A few years down the line and I am in the position to purchase my dream car (fuelled by my obsession of playing far too much Gran Turrismo on the Sony PlayStation 1 - older gentlemen may well have no clue of what I am babbling on about in this instance ). The car's done 154k, been serviced regularly and doesn't miss a beat.

I drove it all over south London this week and man you get some great looks. Believe me there is so much air-cooled love out there. I even had fellow 997 & 991 owners giving the thumbs up :thumb: Van drivers speeding up behind to get a look and kids pointing. The weather was perfect and even using the Dartford crossing was a pleasure as the traffic decided to behave.

 

[MattyR]

Double Post

 

[Palladium]

oh I do believe you when you say there is so much aircooled love, that's why Porsche need to build my classic, imagine it, lol. run it alongside the 991, like when they ran the 928 against the 911. it would look tiny but magic.

 

[HPNer]

oh I do believe you when you say there is so much aircooled love, that's why Porsche need to build my classic, imagine it, lol. run it alongside the 991, like when they ran the 928 against the 911. it would look tiny but magic.

Not a chance chum!
They'll be building an electric 911 before a 'classic' air-cooled!
:judge:

I certainly do not wear rose tinted specs on old 911s. I bought my first when I was 24, left hooker, ex-racer, half cage made up to RSR spec, flame spitter. Hard work to drive, large Fuchs front and back under the RSR arches, dogleg five speed, light yellow. Sold for £2800 (new heat exchangers cost me just over a grand). No regrets.
Then SCs, which I really did rate, except the front lock ups in the wet (and dry!), very rewarding to drive though. No problems with mechanicals as they were barnd new and I kept them around 12-18 months, daily drivers (my weekend car was a '65 Lotus 7, 1850 with twin 45 DCOEs).
Never got more than £14k on part ex for any of them.
Would I want one today? An emphatic NO. Too many grey hairs caused by too many dodgy moments when I ran out of skill . . .
The 993, has it pretty much all I need, actually a bit too much. I would happily junk the A/C, and ALL electric motors. But otherwise wouldn't touch it. Enough power and grip to have fun at sensible speeds . . and a doddle to drive, wet or dry (never really understood why they bothered with putting 4WD onto the thing with all the additional weight and stuff, totally unnecessary unless you lived in Austria).
So, narrow bodied, 2WD manual coupe, is for me THE car of choice
Is it worth £50k?
Yep . . . every day of the week. Mine's as good as new now, so what the hell could I buy for £50k that's going to deliver that experience on a daily basis.
Now't, that's what!


:grin:

 

[langers1970]

oh I do believe you when you say there is so much aircooled love, that's why Porsche need to build my classic, imagine it, lol. run it alongside the 991, like when they ran the 928 against the 911. it would look tiny but magic.

Palladium is right about the need for a small Porsche. The current Boxster is about the same length as a medium sized factory. I saw an air-cooled 911 parked next to the same era VW Beetle the other day and it amazed me how similar in size they were, not surprising really given their shared origins.

What happened to small Porsches?

HPNer is also right. Any hope of the return of air-cooling has as much chance as Terry Venables being reinstated as England manager. All the fun stuff was ended by regulations on noise and emissions etc. That's why the Boxster lost its two most important cylinders after all and with it the magic sound of a flat six. (Even the first gen Boxster with a decent SS twin exhaust makes a wonderful classic Porsche rumble). Rumour is the next gen will be fitted with Prius engines and will be totally silent.

Which is why I think the first gen Cayman could one day be the next 993. It has six excellent cylinders, is fairly compact, better built than those who don't know them would lead you to believe (save for perhaps the Eastern European electrics and awful satnavs). Unlikely to rust quite as readily as the earlier generations of cars. Has all the creature comforts but without some of the nonsense gimmicks and gadgets of the current crop of Porkers. Fewer scaremongers with stories of impending doom. And seems to get prettier with age, as tends to be the case with all Porsches over time apart from the Panamera.

I had the pleasure of a loan of a Panamera courtesy of Chiswick Porsche for a few days when it was launched (admittedly it was a diesel). I felt like I was captaining a large ocean liner. Made me feel every bit the middle aged man I am and then some. I felt a bit of a pillock in it to be honest. Not quite sure what the appeal is of big cars. But I'm sure others like them.

To MattyR: well done that man for recognising the beauty of the older Porsche. What I miss most though is probably the sound. The SC for all its failings is probably the best sounding of the lot, in my humbly biased economy opinion.

 

[Palladium]

never say never, things go in circles, the world is waking up to this 'green' racket.

that javid has gone up in my book giving the green light to shale gas, proper bloke.

global warming is a clever way of imposing rules.


read about the vostok ice samples.


been out in my sc tonite, people were loving it, young and old.

lets write to Porsche explaining how the world needs a 911 classic.

They've got all the tooling, just needs some german brain on improving the engine efficiency. Much cheaper than launching a model from scratch.

call it the 911 air classic.