First Porsche/car purchase advice - 997.2

[tob_today]

Good advice from LuckyLuc.

PDK will be lot less to buy than manuals as they have major premium being relatively rare and 'purist' preferred. Personally I'd try to stretch for S as more desirable, but not deal breaker if you find right non-S.

For costs depends on condition, mileage and how picky you are. Assuming good condition then I'd plan £2-4k servicing & maint in first year then £2k following years with a few extra £k in bank just in case. You might get away with less. Plus mods on top if that's your thing.

 

[Yellow]

I expect about £200 a month for average running costs (servicing/Insurance/tax) once you are fully on top of everything.

The two cars you presented share a lot of common spec as Luckyluc mentioned a lot of the spec is common on 997.2 cars (PCM3/PSM/climate control/partial electric seats etc) and PASM is standard on "S" models. Somethings incredibly are not (including parking rear sensors - mine didnt include it). Personally I wouldnt say either Bose or non Bose is particularly good from an audio perspective and wouldnt be fussed either way.

Many things are possible to retrofit if you particularly want them later: cruise/aux audio input (to allow the carplay upgrade), sports chrono (but no clock), steering wheels can be changed, paddles can be added for PDK. It will cost some money though.

There are a few options that are more popular / searched for: sports chrono, switchable sports exhaust (PSE), PASM, sport seats (with the shoulder wings) and (rocking horse poo) factory LSD.

Sports Chrono is meant to be a great upgrade with the PDK gearbox, car 2 sounds like the slightly better spec to me

 

[YT61MH]

Can't believe Nine Excellence (Gatwick) hasn't been given a mention for a good indy.

 

[Springers]

Hi first post been following this now as I've just recently bought my first 911 a 997.2. I've no expertise in this just always wanted a 911, I like you have been looking, listening, and reading lots of posts and articles which are very well received and informative, but no car. I then thought what the hell so I made a daft offer on a 997.2 s 4K less than advertised at a dealership luckily enough as it was end of the month they said if you buy it today then it's yours.
The rest as they say is history car bought came with 6 months warranty so I had it inspected the week after no problems .
I. Suppose you can look forever for ideal spec I just bought the car dare I say because it looked, drove, and it felt right , to me and that's what mattered.
Good luck in your search I've had mine now 6 weeks or so it's really worth it.
Arctic silver / black. PDK with paddles, PSE, heated seats, Sports Chrono, Bose, Carrera classic wheels, sunroof, park assist etc plus full OEM service history

 

[ChrisS80]

Not sure if it will add much to the discussion but a year into 997.2 ownership this is my experience:
Bought privately, full PPi with a couple of things highlighted- mainly worn front shocks, cracked rear light and 12 year PDK service slightly overdue. The seller dropped his price marginally but nowhere near the cost to rectify but because he had 5-10 other interested parties was, perhaps understandably, not keen on going any lower. Because the market was moving so quickly and prices rising it felt a bit like a now or never type moment.
I had the PDK service done immediately then enjoyed the first 6 months with a view to getting the PPI bits fixed over winter. Long story short it took a little longer to get them sorted than I would have liked and at about 5k, a chunk more expensive as well, mainly because the PPI missed something they should have found which was hugely frustrating but perhaps not typical.
Having been out for a decent drive in it this morning the changes have made a huge improvement and made it more the car I hoped it would be. I was in a similar position to the earlier poster in coming from Golf R, also 7.5, and previously that would have wiped the floor with it. Not any more. The key difference in the Porsche favour is is it's so much more involving and fun, the Golf was hugely capable but quite anodyne (4 wheel drifting round off camber corners on inclines the exception, but that's not for every day)

I guess my point is most cars of this age will need some maintenance expenditure, just don't under estimate how much Porsche tax there is on everything that bumps up the cost. In my case, and this might not last forever (another frequently addressed discussion), the rise in values has probably covered most of the additional outlay.
Overall I'm happy how it's turned out and I'm sure you will be as well if you choose the 997 route

 

[dng]

Not sure if it will add much to the discussion but a year into 997.2 ownership this is my experience:
Bought privately, full PPi with a couple of things highlighted- mainly worn front shocks, cracked rear light and 12 year PDK service slightly overdue. The seller dropped his price marginally but nowhere near the cost to rectify but because he had 5-10 other interested parties was, perhaps understandably, not keen on going any lower. Because the market was moving so quickly and prices rising it felt a bit like a now or never type moment.
I had the PDK service done immediately then enjoyed the first 6 months with a view to getting the PPI bits fixed over winter. Long story short it took a little longer to get them sorted than I would have liked and at about 5k, a chunk more expensive as well, mainly because the PPI missed something they should have found which was hugely frustrating but perhaps not typical.
Having been out for a decent drive in it this morning the changes have made a huge improvement and made it more the car I hoped it would be. I was in a similar position to the earlier poster in coming from Golf R, also 7.5, and previously that would have wiped the floor with it. Not any more. The key difference in the Porsche favour is is it's so much more involving and fun, the Golf was hugely capable but quite anodyne (4 wheel drifting round off camber corners on inclines the exception, but that's not for every day)

I guess my point is most cars of this age will need some maintenance expenditure, just don't under estimate how much Porsche tax there is on everything that bumps up the cost. In my case, and this might not last forever (another frequently addressed discussion), the rise in values has probably covered most of the additional outlay.
Overall I'm happy how it's turned out and I'm sure you will be as well if you choose the 997 route

Thanks this was really helpful as currently looking at something privately and getting PPI done

I guess that is the slight risk with private+PPI, there could be something that is not picked up that then happens and you have to foot the bill

At least with a dealer, even the so called less reputable - as long as they offer 6m/12m warranty you are kind of covered for perhaps the costly changes? That said the PPI guy Im using did mention that many independent dealers still skimp on some of the changes that are needed and therefore you may incur those costs

You mentioned your PPI report flagged things - so you kind of took the deal knowing that future outlay (As you say the seller didnt give enough off the cost, so you took some of that hit), and then some other unforseen faults happened?
Im prepared for such a scenario but hopefully wont have it - if the PPI report for mine comes back with anything significant, I will just walk. £400 cost to learn more and then walk I think is a good option - Im using Porsche Inspections, just because mobile and many on here have said it was decent

 

[Zingari]

Option 2 would win out for me. Sport Chrono+ :thumb:

 

[ianwC4S]

I think I will be adding a similar buying experience to others that have already posted. I Purchased my 997.2 c4s PDK last July from Portiacraft, the car was advertised late one afternoon, called first thing the following morning and I was at their showroom by mid-day, as others have said it was a crazy time to be buying with a queue of people interested. Went for a short drive, never owned a Porsche so didn't really know what to expect, no budging on price and not prepared to sort the stone chips on the bonnet/bumper. Decided to put deposit subject to an independent PPI. As others have done, I used mobile Porsche Inspections for the PPI, they called me after doing the PPI to explain what they found and to comment how good they felt the car was, got the report through and agreed with dealer new disks & pads on front and replace some rusty bolts on the exhaust.
Picked the car up a week later and drove home, when getting near home there was a clunk going over speed bumps, not sure how this could be missed by dealer and PPI! Took it to a local indie as Portiacraft was a 2 hour drive away, they replaced the faulty part and Portiacraft said they would cover the £280.00 bill, at the same time I chatted to the indie about the PDK gearbox as it was a bit jerky and rolled back when pulling away on a hill, he advised a calibration which made the car drive a lot better. After owning the car for a month and getting used to driving it I was starting to feel disappointed, the experience was not what I was expecting even to the point that I was contemplating selling it. Decided to book it in with Center gravity for a health check and to get their take on the way it drove, they said similar to myself, not a relaxed drive at all and felt like you were always having to correct the car. Health check came up with a whole set of worn suspension components with an immediate list costing £2k, an additional cost for while you're doing that we advise you to do this list and my list of lowering springs and wheel spacers. Went away to have a think about what to do, chatted to Pete at Center gravity a few more times who confirmed that the car would be completely different, so decided if I'm keeping the car I need to enjoy it. I can confirm that following the suspension work and also committing to a new set of rubber the car now feels planted and basically feels like a different car. So car is now a keeper with bodywork being sorted in a few weeks.
So, after all I've said above I would say to make sure you have a contingency fund, my car is a 2010 so nearly 12 years old (due the big service in October) and at this age they will all require constant upkeep to keep them driving as they should, but when they are they are fabulous.
Good luck with your search....

 

[ChrisS80]

Not sure if it will add much to the discussion but a year into 997.2 ownership this is my experience:
Bought privately, full PPi with a couple of things highlighted- mainly worn front shocks, cracked rear light and 12 year PDK service slightly overdue. The seller dropped his price marginally but nowhere near the cost to rectify but because he had 5-10 other interested parties was, perhaps understandably, not keen on going any lower. Because the market was moving so quickly and prices rising it felt a bit like a now or never type moment.
I had the PDK service done immediately then enjoyed the first 6 months with a view to getting the PPI bits fixed over winter. Long story short it took a little longer to get them sorted than I would have liked and at about 5k, a chunk more expensive as well, mainly because the PPI missed something they should have found which was hugely frustrating but perhaps not typical.
Having been out for a decent drive in it this morning the changes have made a huge improvement and made it more the car I hoped it would be. I was in a similar position to the earlier poster in coming from Golf R, also 7.5, and previously that would have wiped the floor with it. Not any more. The key difference in the Porsche favour is is it's so much more involving and fun, the Golf was hugely capable but quite anodyne (4 wheel drifting round off camber corners on inclines the exception, but that's not for every day)

I guess my point is most cars of this age will need some maintenance expenditure, just don't under estimate how much Porsche tax there is on everything that bumps up the cost. In my case, and this might not last forever (another frequently addressed discussion), the rise in values has probably covered most of the additional outlay.
Overall I'm happy how it's turned out and I'm sure you will be as well if you choose the 997 route

Thanks this was really helpful as currently looking at something privately and getting PPI done

I guess that is the slight risk with private+PPI, there could be something that is not picked up that then happens and you have to foot the bill

At least with a dealer, even the so called less reputable - as long as they offer 6m/12m warranty you are kind of covered for perhaps the costly changes? That said the PPI guy Im using did mention that many independent dealers still skimp on some of the changes that are needed and therefore you may incur those costs

You mentioned your PPI report flagged things - so you kind of took the deal knowing that future outlay (As you say the seller didnt give enough off the cost, so you took some of that hit), and then some other unforseen faults happened?
Im prepared for such a scenario but hopefully wont have it - if the PPI report for mine comes back with anything significant, I will just walk. £400 cost to learn more and then walk I think is a good option - Im using Porsche Inspections, just because mobile and many on here have said it was decent

I had an idea of the future outlay, it just came in at more than I expected. That's partly due to Porsche tax but I chose to replace all 4 shocks and got lowering springs as well. Also gundo'd the exhaust so it wasn't all related to the PPI. Its extra bits that tend to need doing while you are in there that can add up. As Ian says above changing suspension components, which a lot seem to need as they get older can be like opening a can of worms, drop links often need doing when changing shocks if not changed before for example. Also as Ian says they are very sensitive to setup so a good geo will transform them. All this info is freely available if you do your homework, but it can be difficult to forsee how it might apply to you.

If the PPI flags some issues don't necessarily just dismiss it, you maybe able to use it as a bargaining tool- get them to cost up putting anything right and then then talk to the seller. Unless its a dog of course, but its unlikely nothing will be flagged at this sort of age.
The PPI in my case missed some corrosion on the rear arches, stupidly I didn't give it a good enough look over. My thinking was the experts had given it a good going over so what else would I spot?
Well I did shortly after, 2 tiny bubbles in the paint on the arch lips. I'm not OCD by any means but I'm not one to ignore something once I've seen it so I wanted to get it done. It's maybe worth considering how you are as an owner, do you want it to be perfect? Because you can keep going and going. I could easily have spent significantly more on sorting the stone chips that aren't really that noticeable but I drew the line there, it is a 13 year old car after all.

At risk of repeating what others have said go into it with your eyes open, you have PPI'd which is good, but also give it a good look over yourself to make sure you are happy with it. Also as others have said budget for wear and tear bits that will need doing during your ownership, plus anything else you might want to do to improve it. Remember it's a a Porsche and not a Golf so it's going to cost a bit more to maintain but in return you will get a a better quality driving experience.
Good luck with it all and let us know how you get on

 

[easternjets]

Like a lot of 1st time buyers who decide to buy a Porsche, your going to have a lot of trepidation about what your buying and how much it's going to cost to sort out the issues.
What I would say is don't write off cars that are being sold privately. You do tend to find that enthusiasts of 911's tend to keep their cars in 1st class condition. When I look at a car I always have that 1st impression moment and if the car doesn't seem 'right' then walk away.
Also if a report comes back saying it needs Radiators or Condensers (AC) don't be put off. These are items that do tend to fail, even on low mileage cars but to change them is very straight forward and a fraction of what a Specialist or main dealer will charge you.
I put a car into a well known Specialist on a SOR basis. The service I got beggared belief, they examined my car whilst I was there. I told them the car was in excellent order and the reply I got was 'don't worry we'll find something!'
30 minutes later they came back telling me that a radiator had a leak, they showed me the fluid mark on the pipe and I asked 'well what's that going to cost to fix?' I was quoted nearly £900 for one radiator, trade price by the way, ridiculous especially as an OEM one is £200.
I left the car there a week and after another few negative phone calls about my car, I got fed up and jumped on the train and went back, unannounced to take my car back.
When I got the car back to my house I removed the front bumper and checked the Radiators and AC condensers. Yes there was a leak, not on the rad but on the condenser. I got the system drained, bought 2 new condensers fitted them, got it recharged and everything was perfect. The rads were in good condition and the cost of the parts was just under £300.00, I could have done it cheaper with Ebay condensers for about £200. This work at an OPC would have been in the thousands,a figure that would have most people running out of the showroom.
A warranty may have covered the work but that was the only major work I did on that car in 3 years of ownership. A warranty would have been about £1000 a year for my peace of mind.
My point here is this, the cars that the dealers have were once someone else's car, they haven't owned it form day one.
Yes they may have to do work on the car, new tyres, wheel refurb, AC Cond's, Alignment etc but you can guarantee that work won't be done until it is more or less sold. How many times are you told, oh we'll have it ready next Tuesday. Also you'll be paying for that work in the price, most dealers will want at least £5k profit if not £10k if there's not a lot to fix.
A warranty is only as good as the company providing it. read the small print! RAC warranties will only pay a max of £5k on one claim and the hourly rate that they will pay to the garage is £40 ph outside London. Yes it will cover most smaller items but the shortfall will be paid by the owner, by the way a PDK gearbox is £12k.
Hope you find the right car.

 

[dng]

Brief update :lol: - made progress on one particular vehicle I identified from a private seller - report back from a mobile PPI service I used (very impressed with thoroughness of report/professionalism although dont have anything to gauge it to)

So most urgent are:
- overdue service items - spark plugs, tyre sealant, brake fluid
- drive belt as split
- front brakes

Other:
- crazed paint at front, parking scrapes at rear
- debris in both ducts
- wheel scrapes on all
- compartment light inoperative
- fuel cap lock missing
- cigarette lighter missing
- Heat exchanger/silencer/exhaust condition - Appears sound with surface corrosion only. Fasteners corroded but secure


report ultimately concluded that it was an above avg condition compared to the many they have seen. the inspector told me ball park £1.5k for main items and probably well under £5k all in. How does that sound to people? I have heard others say not to be deterred by things , as they are "old" vehicles and always a few things need fixing

Im just going to check some rough quotes with local 911 garages, annoyingly i would then have to go elsewhere to get bodywork stuff done as it seems my locals ones are mechanic or cosmetic only. Cosmetic stuff not too bothered about as not essential, only to really bring it up to really top condition

Im going to try to negotiate and get a grand or a few (I hope)- which should seal the deal for me

I guess with a dealer these would easily be fixed beforehand - so more the time/logistical hassle that would be incurred with a private deal having to then bring it to get fixed personally

any thoughts on this?

 

[Yellow]

Brief update :lol: - made progress on one particular vehicle I identified from a private seller - report back from a mobile PPI service I used (very impressed with thoroughness of report/professionalism although dont have anything to gauge it to)

So most urgent are:
- overdue service items - spark plugs, tyre sealant, brake fluid
- drive belt as split
- front brakes

Other:
- crazed paint at front, parking scrapes at rear
- debris in both ducts
- wheel scrapes on all
- compartment light inoperative
- fuel cap lock missing
- cigarette lighter missing
- Heat exchanger/silencer/exhaust condition - Appears sound with surface corrosion only. Fasteners corroded but secure


report ultimately concluded that it was an above avg condition compared to the many they have seen. the inspector told me ball park £1.5k for main items and probably well under £5k all in. How does that sound to people? I have heard others say not to be deterred by things , as they are "old" vehicles and always a few things need fixing

Im just going to check some rough quotes with local 911 garages, annoyingly i would then have to go elsewhere to get bodywork stuff done as it seems my locals ones are mechanic or cosmetic only. Cosmetic stuff not too bothered about as not essential, only to really bring it up to really top condition

Im going to try to negotiate and get a grand or a few (I hope)- which should seal the deal for me

I guess with a dealer these would easily be fixed beforehand - so more the time/logistical hassle that would be incurred with a private deal having to then bring it to get fixed personally

any thoughts on this?

Sounds like a London car... that has been used but not necessarily "cherished"

The urgent items could be sorted fairly easily - it is basically due a major service + front discs/pads - I'd expect about £1k maybe slightly over. Depending on where you are sorting the paint on both bumpers and wheels could easily be £1.5k. The cig lighter and compartment light wouldn't worry me too much and are easily changed. Exhaust fixings are a known weak point and rust to nothing on all the cars, if they dont leak then can leave for the moment.

I cant work out how/why it would be missing the lock for the fuel filler though.

 

[T8]

Brief update :lol: - made progress on one particular vehicle I identified from a private seller - report back from a mobile PPI service I used (very impressed with thoroughness of report/professionalism although dont have anything to gauge it to)

So most urgent are:
- overdue service items - spark plugs, tyre sealant, brake fluid
- drive belt as split
- front brakes

............... Im going to try to negotiate and get a grand or a few (I hope)- which should seal the deal for me

I guess with a dealer these would easily be fixed beforehand - so more the time/logistical hassle that would be incurred with a private deal having to then bring it to get fixed personally

any thoughts on this?

Another post confirming the wisdom and benefit of getting a proper PPI done. :thumbs:

If you can negotiate a price based on getting a contribution towards getting those 'most urgent' items done it sounds like a good deal all round.

Good Luck :thumb:

 

[easternjets]

When was the last major service? The plugs are normally changed every 4 years, which is the major service. As the OPC's charge an arm and a leg to do a plug replacement they some times get taken off the list, along with the main drive belt.
I think you'll find that 90% of Porsche cars are driving around with out of date tyre sealant so I wouldn't even bother with that.
The drive belt is a fairly straight forward job to do, there's quite a few bits to come out of the way to get to it but it could be done by any good mechanic. Same with the plugs, the rear bumper shroud has to come off and the coil packs removed but it's not a difficult job, at the same time you can check the coil packs to see if they've started to split. If they have started to deteriorate then it's good practice to change them.
Front brakes are very easy to change out, no more difficult than any other road car and an OPC will take your pants down with their prices, so go to Autodoc or ECP and again get a good mechanic to do them.
Discs and pads about £300, drive belt about £40 and plugs about £30. If the coil packs need changing then budget about £40 each.
There's nothing on that list that would put me off the car.

 

[Rivaldo2k20]

When I purchased mine, it had a long list of stuff that needed doing, so I got my indy to do it over a period of 3-4 months. Set aside 3k or so if I remember.

I never ever replace the tyre gel, it always flags up, and I jus tell them to leave it.

Set aside 1-2k a year to run these cars.