First Porsche/car purchase advice - 997.2

[CB911C4S]

I echo what others have said. I had been half looking for a while and saw the prices going up and up, so I decided to jump in.
I decided on definitely using an indy to have some warranty and protection. I called Harry at Portiacraft, which have a fast turn-over of stock, and picked a C4S that had just been added. I was the first to call and book a test drive. He had loads more calls in the 24 hours between my call and test drive, I drove it, loved it and bought it on the spot.
There are lots of good indy dealers - my experience with Portiacraft has been great post sale.
I paid 'cash' but no discount! He could have sold it several times over in less than a week.
It had 35K mileage and FSH with OPC or major indy. I still spent a decent amount on new tyres, suspension and geo. it is a 16 yr old car and things perish through age. Be prepared.
Lastly, once you drive it away, you will wonder what took you so long to get one!

 

[veetwin]

Purchased my 2009 C2S PDK last year in June, from Ashgood. I highly recommend them, great customer service throughout. Great guys who are genuinely enthusiastic about cars/racing and love to chat.

It was also my first Porsche coming from a history of sports cars, fast saloons/wagons and hot hatches so was a little nervous to meet my hero (attended Le Mans on and off from 1998 to 2017 and was besotted by Porsche). Had been searching for around 18 months, and definitely wanted a 997.2 to avoid IMS, RMS, Borescoring issues as best possible. I also looked at 991.1s but would have been too high mileage for my budget and they are much bigger cars.

I paid £45k. Car was on 45k miles with Basalt Black, PDK (+ paddles, not buttons), Sport Chrono, PCCB, LSD, Wing-back seats, PSE, previous owner had fitted Sharkwerks X-Pipe, full OPC history with major service and new tyres just completed. So it wanted for nothing.

Driving the car away, I had a lot of remorse. Very disappointing. Coming from a VW Golf R 7.5 it felt, drove and handled poorly. I wish I had been able to test-drive prior to purchasing, but alas Covid put paid to that. Ashgood were very good and suggested I had up to 14 days to return the car and have a full refund (if I recall correctly), as I couldnt test drive.

Anyway, I decided to persevere with car and Im now very glad I did.

See separate thread here -

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=149070&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

It has taken a lot of effort and money to get the car where it needs to be. So if you are an enthusiastic driver (fast road and trackdays), be also prepared to spend some additional money refining the car.

Summary of refinements -

It has taken a Fast Road Geo, new drop links, H&R springs and a DSC Sport Controller to get my 997.2 C2S handling sorted to a point where I feel confident to push hard (real hard)

Out of the box, PASM was horrendous.

In Normal Mode - Floaty front end. In fast corners (90mph plus) the car would feel like the rear wanted to pitch weight forward to the front. Compression Damping was too harsh and Rebound non-existent

In Sport Mode - undriveable on UK roads

DSC Sport controller was the biggest improvement. Geo helped with turn-in and mid-corner stability. Springs rates help more progressive feel

Prior to all this work, my old Golf R (7.5) would have annihilated the Porsche and was more fun to drive, in most scenarios.

Now the Porsche is a monster, on very fast dry roads at 10/10ths, no car Ive owned matches the driver experience. It really is something else. Im still learning the nuances of Rear-engine (brake to apex, transition to power). It took a lot of money and effort to arrive here.

Standard car falls short in my opinion and was designed for people to arrive in style at the Golf Course / Weekend Retreat.


Hope this helps and enjoy the search!!

 

[deMort]

I'll just say .. i don't care who you buy a car from .. what their reputation is .. you get an Independant PPI done by a reputable Indy .

£40K is a hell of a lot of money and i know from experience .. not every car is all it's cracked up to be regardless of whos selling it .

Gen 2 or not .. i would Still recommend a borescope inspection .

Just my opinions anyways .

 

[dng]

Purchased my 2009 C2S PDK last year in June, from Ashgood. I highly recommend them, great customer service throughout. Great guys who are genuinely enthusiastic about cars/racing and love to chat.

It was also my first Porsche coming from a history of sports cars, fast saloons/wagons and hot hatches so was a little nervous to meet my hero (attended Le Mans on and off from 1998 to 2017 and was besotted by Porsche). Had been searching for around 18 months, and definitely wanted a 997.2 to avoid IMS, RMS, Borescoring issues as best possible. I also looked at 991.1s but would have been too high mileage for my budget and they are much bigger cars.

I paid £45k. Car was on 45k miles with Basalt Black, PDK (+ paddles, not buttons), Sport Chrono, PCCB, LSD, Wing-back seats, PSE, previous owner had fitted Sharkwerks X-Pipe, full OPC history with major service and new tyres just completed. So it wanted for nothing.

Driving the car away, I had a lot of remorse. Very disappointing. Coming from a VW Golf R 7.5 it felt, drove and handled poorly. I wish I had been able to test-drive prior to purchasing, but alas Covid put paid to that. Ashgood were very good and suggested I had up to 14 days to return the car and have a full refund (if I recall correctly), as I couldnt test drive.

Anyway, I decided to persevere with car and Im now very glad I did.

See separate thread here -

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=149070&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

It has taken a lot of effort and money to get the car where it needs to be. So if you are an enthusiastic driver (fast road and trackdays), be also prepared to spend some additional money refining the car.

Summary of refinements -

It has taken a Fast Road Geo, new drop links, H&R springs and a DSC Sport Controller to get my 997.2 C2S handling sorted to a point where I feel confident to push hard (real hard)

Out of the box, PASM was horrendous.

In Normal Mode - Floaty front end. In fast corners (90mph plus) the car would feel like the rear wanted to pitch weight forward to the front. Compression Damping was too harsh and Rebound non-existent

In Sport Mode - undriveable on UK roads

DSC Sport controller was the biggest improvement. Geo helped with turn-in and mid-corner stability. Springs rates help more progressive feel

Prior to all this work, my old Golf R (7.5) would have annihilated the Porsche and was more fun to drive, in most scenarios.

Now the Porsche is a monster, on very fast dry roads at 10/10ths, no car Ive owned matches the driver experience. It really is something else. Im still learning the nuances of Rear-engine (brake to apex, transition to power). It took a lot of money and effort to arrive here.

Standard car falls short in my opinion and was designed for people to arrive in style at the Golf Course / Weekend Retreat.


Hope this helps and enjoy the search!!

Thanks for sharing detailed opinion

I'm coming from a complete old banger of a car so I don't think I am going to be able to tell difference, everything will be an upgrade haha

That said I have also started to look at 991.1 . Speaking to a few dealers it seems given gen 2 997 price has run 991 offers a nice value play. I'm unsure on either still. I'm not looking for a forever car so will get the right one as soon as I see

Another question with dealers and even private sellers how much can you generally haggle/bargain off the list price ? Without being offensive. 10% ? 15% what are people's experiences

 

[dng]

I echo what others have said. I had been half looking for a while and saw the prices going up and up, so I decided to jump in.
I decided on definitely using an indy to have some warranty and protection. I called Harry at Portiacraft, which have a fast turn-over of stock, and picked a C4S that had just been added. I was the first to call and book a test drive. He had loads more calls in the 24 hours between my call and test drive, I drove it, loved it and bought it on the spot.
There are lots of good indy dealers - my experience with Portiacraft has been great post sale.
I paid 'cash' but no discount! He could have sold it several times over in less than a week.
It had 35K mileage and FSH with OPC or major indy. I still spent a decent amount on new tyres, suspension and geo. it is a 16 yr old car and things perish through age. Be prepared.
Lastly, once you drive it away, you will wonder what took you so long to get one!

You mention those replacement expenses which is I guess a drawback of 997 .2 Vs maybe a 991?
Did you know that they were coming or did they come as hidden unexpected ?

Assuming purchase inspection is all good , I imagine one would be fine to not have looming expenses upcoming ?

 

[T8]

......... Another question with dealers and even private sellers how much can you generally haggle/bargain off the list price ? Without being offensive. 10% ? 15% what are people's experiences

You might be able to get a few £££s off a private seller but in the current market you'll struggle to get anything at a dealer - unless they've overpriced the car in the first place.

 

[tob_today]

My advice:
- know what you want, look at a few, sit in them, test drive some
- be patient waiting for the one you want, actively looking with all the Indy specialists mentioned
- buy on condition & history if you are not looking for project
- have some £ in bank for maintenance in first year - how much depends how you like your cars, these will all need something, and it's a Porsche not a Ford so being prepared is safe
- get PPI, I've used these chaps on all my cars: https://www.porscheinspections.com
- put deposit down subject to PPI, they come out and give you thorough report, they will find things and either save you from a nightmare or dealer will fix the items and PPI cost will be covered with those repairs (plus give you peace of mind)
- don't expect to negotiate on price in current market, do expect to move very fast when you see one. Good ones go super fast, be wary of anything sitting

Personally I'd rather have a good 997.2 over 991.1 any day. But that's a personal choice. Try them both. Happy hunting :thumb:

 

[tob_today]

As additional thought, if you want to learn more about these cars there's tons of good video content on YouTube.

Luke at Friends Green Porsche posts some good informative videos like below which might also help you learn about the different models, specs etc. He also generally sells decent cars too, although not same as the top indy's like 911virgin or Paragon. Plus other YouTubers like Jayemm have quite a lot of UK Porsche content.

Most importantly, think what you want from your car and go from there. That will dictate importance of PDK vs manual, coupe vs targa vs convertible, before getting into more specific options like sunroof, sports seats, wheels, if those things are important.

 

[b2thomas]

Not sure I can add much to anything that has already been posted but can share my own experience.

I bought a 997.2 S manual from Ashgood just over a year ago. I had been looking for a good 8 months before that and had also looked at a private one being sold. The one being sold privately was a good one and I put a deposit on it and got porscheinspections to do a PPI. There were a few things that needed doing. Long story short, a dealer came along in the meantime and offered the seller an easy sale which he accepted. So I went back to looking again. There aren't many out there and when the Ashgood one came up a few months later I jumped on it before it was even advertised.

The car was clearly more expensive than the private sale but the service was excellent and the car is in great condition (1 owner car). It was not the exact spec I would have chosen but realised that was unrealistic so went for something based on condition, mileage from a good dealer.

Have thoroughly enjoyed the car ever since. Although I had never owned a 997.2 before, I had done a few Porsche experience days over the years and had driven plenty.

Good luck with the search!

 

[T8]

Looking at a 997.2 but have a few questions as a new buyer to cars/porsche. Ideally an S, coupe, black, other then that pretty flexible on any other specs

Reading back through your 997 -> 991 thread it's just dawned on me that black is actually quite an unusual colour to see on a 991 compared to the loads of black 997s that you see. That might hamper your search if you're really keen on a getting a black car.

EDIT: I've just looked and there's load of black 991s for sale. It's weird that I don't recall seeing many on the road / at shows etc.

 

[veetwin]

Basalt Black is a bloody nightmare to keep clean! After even a small local journey to the shops, it comes back with a nice layer of obvious road dust

On the plus side, it gives me a reason to go out and use the snow foam and ceramic protector

If I was looking again, would be searching for a Meteor Grey. Sorry if that narrows your search!

 

[TheCock]

+1 for Ashgood. I bought a 997.2 from him a few years ago when he was a smaller business. Service was superb, car was very honest.

997.2 is a great car. I've just moved on from mine but I still miss it. Great cars and only going up in value for a good one I think, not that that's the main reason for buying, but it is a consideration for sure.

Good luck with your hunt. The good cars are worth paying the price for, better that than getting 10% off a questionable car? If its good just buy it, don't get caught up in trying to get a deal, it likely won't be a deal in the medium to long term.

 

[dng]

Thanks for the feedback/thoughts all, has been really helpful and I hope to anyone else diving head first into porsche/car ownership

I have 2 spec lists that I have seen for potential purchases - does anyone have knowledge on the lists, is there something that is missing/should be questioned? e.g. I may have wrongly separated some items. Whats your thoughts on either? Im asking more to know about the specs rather then being choosy

The difference I see is one has paddles, but the other has sports chrono (what does that include aside from the clock at the front ?)

Option1 :
PSM (Porsche Stability Mode) control
PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) switch
paddles
PCM with Nav and Bluetooth telephone modules
Bose Surround Sound
Cruise Control
Climate Control
Electrically Adjustable Seats
Park Assist Rear
19-inch Carrera S II Wheels - chipping - needs fixing - was told they would be a few hundred £ to get flawless, but im not too fussed
unsure of tyres - assume satisfactory

Option 2:
Sport chrono package plus,
sport design steering wheel
extended PCM navigation system
heated front seats
Bose Surround Sound
Cruise Control
Climate Control
Electrically Adjustable Seats
park assist with rear parking sensors
19"" 5 spoke Carrera Classic alloy wheels
matching Michelin Pilot Sport performance tyres

Edited. Both are pdk. Both gen 2. S models

 

[dng]

Another separate and very basic question I had, what would you budget as the general maintenance costs anually

MOT?
General repairs from a reputable independent?
Tax £600
Insurance - dependent say £400?
total: £1.5-2k? (am i missing anything, assuming servicing done recently and not going to be another 20k miles)

 

[LuckyLuc]

Thanks for the feedback/thoughts all, has been really helpful and I hope to anyone else diving head first into porsche/car ownership

I have 2 spec lists that I have seen for potential purchases - does anyone have knowledge on the lists, is there something that is missing/should be questioned? e.g. I may have wrongly separated some items. Whats your thoughts on either? Im asking more to know about the specs rather then being choosy

The difference I see is one has paddles, but the other has sports chrono (what does that include aside from the clock at the front ?)

Option1 :
PSM (Porsche Stability Mode) control
PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) switch
paddles
PCM with Nav and Bluetooth telephone modules
Bose Surround Sound
Cruise Control
Climate Control
Electrically Adjustable Seats
Park Assist Rear
19-inch Carrera S II Wheels - chipping - needs fixing - was told they would be a few hundred £ to get flawless, but im not too fussed
unsure of tyres - assume satisfactory

Option 2:
Sport chrono package plus,
sport design steering wheel
extended PCM navigation system
heated front seats
Bose Surround Sound
Cruise Control
Climate Control
Electrically Adjustable Seats
park assist with rear parking sensors
19"" 5 spoke Carrera Classic alloy wheels
matching Michelin Pilot Sport performance tyres

Firstly, great choice with a 997.2 and if you find a good one, I'm sure you'll love it. I looked for 6 months before finding one last July and it replaced a Boxster which I'd had for 11.5 years - a 987, so same era of car.

I'm terms of the two you list and the options noted, it's not obvious from the description that one is PDK and one is manual, so will take it from your comment that that is what they are. I'm terms of options it's down to personal desire around what's important to you and a must have and what is just a nice to have. A few comments from me:
- PASM is standard on all 997.2 S models and an option on a base Carrera - not sure if these two are base or S?
- heated seats are useful in winter. Seats are partially electric as standard - backrest, and manual to move seat forward or back. If it's only you driving, might not get value from full electric seats unless you value lumber adjustment. Also sports seats with the extended shoulders are not essential as standard seats are very good and supportive.
- rear park assist comes as standard on 997.2.
- Sports chrono is a desirable extra though I never use the stopwatch function and so it's only other function is to sharpen throttle essentially. If car is PDK then it adds gearbox modes. Sports chrono plus offers programmable options for each key, which is novel, but again not really used if only you drive car.
- the NAV is old despite this 3.1 system being better than previous versions. I tend to use phone rather than via PCM.
- Sports design steering wheel is an expensive option and the best looking wheel imo. Worthwhile extra.
- Bluetooth phone is useful for connection though there are kits you can buy to do the same if car doesn't have it.
- Bose is good and also a desirable option.
- both the wheels mentioned are lovely styles and suit the car so not much to choose between them.
- whilst neither lists it, the Porsche Sports Exhaust is another sought after option.

In terms of running costs, I think your numbers are a good average to budget for.

Good luck finding your car and worth holding out for one with the right history and condition. Like others have said, given the huge demand and lack of supply of them, you might have to compromise on things like spec or your preferred colour in order to get a good car. I'd also not worry too much about base or S and just find the best car for your budget. Good dealer cars move very quickly and so you'll need to pounce quickly. Private or auction gives you a little more time and likely some price flexibility.
Good luck!