Advice appreciated - negligent OPC?

[Ectogamat]

Hi all, would appreciate some advice. I've been having cab top issues with my 997.2 Since March 2023.

I tried to put the roof down and it went off at an angle made an awful sound.

Took it in to the local main dealer and they originally said it was the convertible top lid drive gear. Replaced at an expense of £2.2k. Roof worked but it wasn't closing properly. The clamshell would sit flush on one side but leave about a 2cm gap on the other... So back into the dealer we go and they have another look change something again.

Works again but a few months later the cab top will now only retract 80% so even worse. It won't even go down.

Bring it in and they finally say that all of this is because the clam shell is deformed with the below response. They want £10k for the repair but willing to reduce to £6.5k for the inconvenience caused.

"Having fully investigated the roof and stripped the components down at initially our cost, we have found the clam shell is deformed which is causing the drive motor to fail, we believe this is due to the increased stress on the unit caused by the warped rear cover. I appreciate the vehicle has been back into us a couple of times for this issue; once the drive unit was replaced on both occasions the roof was operating beautifully and we had no further reason to further investigate. As this is now the 3rd time the unit has failed we have completely stripped the mechanism and found the root cause of the issue. I appreciate this has been an inconvenience for you, however you have not been charged for any diagnostic just the fitment of the drive unit originally"

I feel shafted because the original email was as follows suggesting they strip it down and so the underlying diagnostics:

"we would certainly need to strip the components down to make sure there are no other items broken, if everything is ok the cost to replace the Convertible top Lid drive gear is £2.2k"

Clearly that wasn't done. I'm now £2.2k out of pocket and facing another £6.5k bill when they should have diagnosed the issue to begin with.

What course of action would you take here? Are they negligent? Do I have a let to stand on?

Appreciate any advice.

 

[911UK]

Hi all, would appreciate some advice. I've been having cab top issues with my 997.2 Since March 2023.

I tried to put the roof down and it went off at an angle made an awful sound.

Took it in to the local main dealer and they originally said it was the convertible top lid drive gear. Replaced at an expense of £2.2k. Roof worked but it wasn't closing properly. The clamshell would sit flush on one side but leave about a 2cm gap on the other... So back into the dealer we go and they have another look change something again.

Works again but a few months later the cab top will now only retract 80% so even worse. It won't even go down.

Bring it in and they finally say that all of this is because the clam shell is deformed with the below response. They want £10k for the repair but willing to reduce to £6.5k for the inconvenience caused.

"Having fully investigated the roof and stripped the components down at initially our cost, we have found the clam shell is deformed which is causing the drive motor to fail, we believe this is due to the increased stress on the unit caused by the warped rear cover. I appreciate the vehicle has been back into us a couple of times for this issue; once the drive unit was replaced on both occasions the roof was operating beautifully and we had no further reason to further investigate. As this is now the 3rd time the unit has failed we have completely stripped the mechanism and found the root cause of the issue. I appreciate this has been an inconvenience for you, however you have not been charged for any diagnostic just the fitment of the drive unit originally"

I feel shafted because the original email was as follows suggesting they strip it down and so the underlying diagnostics:

"we would certainly need to strip the components down to make sure there are no other items broken, if everything is ok the cost to replace the Convertible top Lid drive gear is £2.2k"

Clearly that wasn't done. I'm now £2.2k out of pocket and facing another £6.5k bill when they should have diagnosed the issue to begin with.

What course of action would you take here? Are they negligent? Do I have a let to stand on?

Appreciate any advice.

from a maintenance perspective, the 1st port of call would be the drive gear but having a deformed clam shall is rare, but can happen with age and unlucky

the fact you have had 3 gear unit failures is where I would raise this point, as I assuming on every occasion a new gear unit was installed ?

have they shown you the clam shell is actually deformed ?

 

[cheshire911]

To prove negligence will not be easy.
Some fixes involve trial and error. A different example is the spoiler on 996 Turbo. OPC will run a diagnostic, suggest changing microswitches. Still not fixed. Then they'll say change the 2 hydraulic pumps - strip and labour + parts. Still not fixed. Then they'll say need to change the pump which must have been damaged by running on with the first spoiler failure.

Is it negligence? No. Just a process of diagnosis by ruling out one thing after another.

I think you'll just need to pay the £6k fix - they have been reasonable in not charging diagnostics labour.

 

[911UK]

over what period did each of the 3 drive motor failures occur ? years or months ?

to be on your 4th unit is not normal and should have been picked up after the 2nd failed

 

[martin t]

I feel your pain: I had numerous issue with my 996 C4 cab roof. It cost me quite a lot via an indy to sort the problem but nowhere near as much as you are being asked.

My suggestion is to buy a 2nd hand clamshell and get an indy who can prove they have experience with sorting cab roof issue to do the work.

I have just sold my spare gear mechanism but all the parts are available used from people like 9apart and douglas valley. If you need the cable that releases the latch on the clamshell I have a brand new porsche supplied part.

I love the cab but will never buy another, great when they work but grief when they fail. too many micro switches and brittle palastic parts.

I alos managed to buy the Porsche cabriolet workshop suppliment!

 

[isysman]

The problem with main dealers is they cannot fix things, they must replace with new items, so the price shoots up. Find an Indy to fix this one.

 

[Punchdrunked]

I wouldn’t say that they’re negligent. If anything you’ve got a result out of it albeit at a cost of £2.2k. Would you have preferred them to have got to the nub of the problem from the off and charged you £10k to repair it or their hourly rate for their diagnostic work?

The way I see it is that they’re offering you a discount of circa £1k to repair the job, or better still you now know the exact problem and can shop around for a cheaper fix. Try Cayman Autos, they’re specialists on convertible type cars.

 

[911UK]

hiya @Ectogamat what's the latest ?

 

[Ectogamat]

Thanks all for the input, I appreciate it.

After some discussion with the Porsche centre and them showing me the problem we came to a reasonable arrangement.

It appears the clamshell is deformed / slightly bent and that it's worthwhile some of the hinges on either side of the clam shell being replaced.

They were putting new motors in and it was killing them so the underlying issue has to be the deformed clamshell.

The part is v expensive so they've put the car together and I'm taking it to Cayman autos (had heard good things + the reco here) with the hope that the clamshell can be contorted back into a nominal position (and the hinges changed).

I'll then bring it back to Porsche and they'll put a new motor in it.

Hopefully we'll be good to go at that point.

Thanks again and will update here once sorted

 

[Alex]

Looks to me like they've done half a job (of what they said they'd do.....in an email), missed the main issue, then done the job they originally said (in said email) they'd do and want to charge you again for the privilege of their incompetence. I think I'd be saying to them I have no problem paying the £6.5k to fix the job on the condition they refund me the £2.2k they charged for not doing the job they said they would.

 

[Zingari]

Looks to me like they've done half a job (of what they said they'd do.....in an email), missed the main issue, then done the job they originally said (in said email) they'd do and want to charge you again for the privilege of their incompetence. I think I'd be saying to them I have no problem paying the £6.5k to fix the job on the condition they refund me the £2.2k they charged for not doing the job they said they would.

 

[MR997]

Yep, incompetent and expect you to pay for it.

 

[KarlRS]

Wow Surely they could have seen the warping in the first place?

 

[Mordibe]

The cable one side breaks , this will raise one side of the clam shell but not the other , it basically bends the clamshell .. pretty common when they do fail but depending on how long you kept the button pressed before realising there was an issue is just how bent it will be ... some can be horrendous .

The clam shell can be reshaped .. but i'll guarantee it will have seperated .. its separate panels that make up the clam shell .. these will have seperated .

A reshape and a rebonding with tiger seal is possible .. it will never be 100 % perfect though .. you want that .. buy a new one .

garage didn't see it was bent in the first place .... if you put it on a trestle .. perhaps not .. put it on the floor and you will soon see its bent .. logic applies .. one side is approx 12 inches above the other when the fault was realised .. yup it will bend ... Shame it wasn't spotted ... can't comment there .

The cables 3 years ago were circa £500 .. they are now £1800 .. now THAT'S porsche tax for ya !!

I did ask Iain about this to be fair , he's not a fan of the forums these days after a complaint was made about him but he did say he has posted about this before .. perhaps a search as he mentioned pictures of a broken clam shell and what he did to repair it .

 

[Ectogamat]

Hi just thought I'd follow up here as you were all very helpful in your replies, thanks again.

Cayman autos didn't want to touch (no judgement) but referred me to Copse Automotive. David has been excellent, he has sourced a new tonneau / clamshell and colour matched it perfectly.

Taken it back to Porsche OPC to put the new motor in under warranty (the one where the cables kept snapping).

Wait for it... more drama!!

It appears that a lot of pressure is being applied to the roof when it's stowed and this could cause further strain on the motor causing the cables to snap yet again.

They have no idea what's going on so ticket being opened with Porsche Technical UK by the OPC.

So painful - I am learning that:

Convertibles are a nightmare
OPCs are not where the knowledge sits
Porsche's can bleed you dry!