Finally, IMS, is this the answer and ultimate closure.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

This info should be passed on to M97 owners that cannot easily replace the bearing but could remove the outer dust shield with the bearing in place.

What I'd love to get to is real simple agreed understanding for each version. 3.4 you remove shields. 3.6 you do XY. 3.6 upgrade you do ABC. 3.8 you do Z. There's so much detail often criss crossing various models not to mention the Boxsters and Cayman that for those of us with very little grasp of the mechanical stuff, it just gets long winded and overwhelming. I'd really like to simplify it for myself and maybe one or two other thickos out there.

This is why the smoke and mirrors brigade make so much money out of peddling the fear. They put up convincing arguments and they know the internet spreads stuff like wildfire.

Some of the US based stuff is the worst by a long way.

 

[bazhart]

There is no smoke and mirrors with us - just plain true facts.

Our first introduction to M96 engine problems was with the dual row bearings. They spec slightly less than the single row because the single row has deeper groove tracks for the balls.

When we ran out of dual row bearings we had to make a conversion for the single row. The double row was not (and as far as I am aware is not) available anymore and was a special design and order. Neither seemed any better than the other to us.

The single row is available anywhere.

You can fit a large bearing IMS but need a later crankshaft to accommodate the change to a hivo chain drive from a roller chain drive.

Our new shaft ends have been made with either so enable the older crank to run with our bigger bearing shaft but you can only fit it by stripping the engine.

Trying to remove and replace a small bearing in situ can cause damage and even damage the fit of the new bearing - not very likely with good tooling but very likely without.

If your bearing has lasted this long the seals will have worn and the oil is getting in OK. In our experience if they last past 60 to 80 K they often go on to 150K.

Unfortunately this is not a good situation for anyone and we are just trying to do our best to help in a situation we did not create.

Our view is that various alternatives are no better than a single bearing but that changing the old bearing may cause more problems than it is worth if you remove the front seal (no need to remove the rear one anyway) and the track and cage look OK it might be a better risk to leave alone, remove the seal and keep your fingers crossed.

If it is in tact but looks bad - replacing in situ with help may be a better risk financially than a complete engine rebuild - but you will need one of those anyway one day - so perhaps it is a risk worth taking until then?

Sorry I cannot make the problem completely go away - that is the way it is!

Baz

 

[kas750]

if they last past 60 to 80 K they often go on to 150K.

:thumb:

 

[Alex]

This guy is great at replacing the bearing and cheap too :grin:

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

^^^^^

Bodger central!

 

[kas750]

:floor:

 

[Alex]

:lol: When I worked at Philips, this guy would be known as a Ham-Booner.

 

[Niall996]

The double row was not (and as far as I am aware is not) available anymore and was a special design and order. Neither seemed any better than the other to us.

The single row is available anywhere.

Baz

Sorry Baz, just to be clear. I take two big things out of what you've said here. 1) My 98 3.4 would I assume have a dual row bearing. You are saying that this version is no longer available? So if I was ever to do a job on my engine I would have to replace it with a different one? What is the best replacement one?

And 2) you reckon that by 80k miles my dust shield has worn away anyway at this stage so the whole idea of getting someone to remove the shield as a near preventative solution is redundant for my particular car?

Cheers

Niall

 

[paul987]

Thankyou to all posters very informative regarding the IMS :thumb:

Now to get back on topic... I've clicked all the links on this thread and I can't find any suppliers of snake oil.... could someone point me in the right direction :dont know: :lol:

 

[Niall996]

Thankyou to all posters very informative regarding the IMS :thumb:

Now to get back on topic... I've clicked all the links on this thread and I can't find any suppliers of snake oil.... could someone point me in the right direction :dont know: :lol:

It seems that anything to do with direct oil feed is snakeskin oil.

It appears that removing dust shields on existing bearings is sadly a red herring on the basis that most engines will have worn these out anyway.

Replacement bearing for the original 3.4 engines are not available therefore....

...if I was to put my car into a garage next week and ask them to do something, I'm not really sure what that would be!

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Thankyou to all posters very informative regarding the IMS :thumb:

Now to get back on topic... I've clicked all the links on this thread and I can't find any suppliers of snake oil.... could someone point me in the right direction :dont know: :lol:

It seems that anything to do with direct oil feed is snakeskin oil.

It appears that removing dust shields on existing bearings is sadly a red herring on the basis that most engines will have worn these out anyway.

Replacement bearing for the original 3.4 engines are not available therefore....

...if I was to put my car into a garage next week and ask them to do something, I'm not really sure what that would be!

It's not a red herring, it is a possibility that oil seal may have worn - it's not a definite.

If you have a dual row bearing - why would you need to do something/anything if it is ok? The likelihood is (by a large percentage) that everything is ok.

I understand that the technicalities can appear confusing, but if your car is ok and all is well there are some basic checks at oil change etc. that will allow you to keep an eye on things.

Why not just e-mail Baz direct or PM him.

There are options which he will discuss in detail.

 

[Niall996]

Thankyou to all posters very informative regarding the IMS :thumb:

Now to get back on topic... I've clicked all the links on this thread and I can't find any suppliers of snake oil.... could someone point me in the right direction :dont know: :lol:

It seems that anything to do with direct oil feed is snakeskin oil.

It appears that removing dust shields on existing bearings is sadly a red herring on the basis that most engines will have worn these out anyway.

Replacement bearing for the original 3.4 engines are not available therefore....

...if I was to put my car into a garage next week and ask them to do something, I'm not really sure what that would be!

It's not a red herring, it is a possibility that they have worn - it's not a definite.

If you have a dual row bearing - why would you need to do something/anything if it is ok? The likelihood is (by a large percentage) that everything is ok.

I understand that the technicalities can appear confusing, but if your car is ok and all is well there are some basic checks at oil change etc. that will allow you to keep an eye on things.

Why not just e-mail Baz direct or PM him.

There are options which he will discuss in detail.

I probably will give him a call actually because sifting through even a short burst of posts on a thread like this immediately begins to throw up contradictions and possible waffle.

So on the shields Baz is quite definitive actually. He doesn't use the phrase 'might' but rather 'will.' See quite below. If Baz is correct the whole 'just remove the dust shield' line is irrelevant to 90% of cars.

'If your bearing has lasted this long the seals will have worn and the oil is getting in OK. In our experience if they last past 60 to 80 K they often go on to 150K.'

The reason I would have my dual row bearing checked is simple. I could be in the 1 or 2% that fail. Surely the most sensible thing to do after 80k miles is simple - have a precautionary look and check up. Just in case. Why not? Every year something has to be done. Next week the air conditioning has to be fixed. So for something so important, why not spend a bit of money every five years or so and look at it as part of a big service item. The question for me is, if there is signs of wear, what is the right action to take? I honestly thought, based on advice from a local independent and the video I posted that there might have be a nice simple precaution in DOF. But that option has been shot down here which obviously now makes me wonder what is going on with the local 'highly reputable' indie!

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Do not doubt that the indie you mention has a good reputation and many satisfied customers - there are lots of indies that fall into this category.

Just because they offer the DOF and other 'fixes' does not make them bad in my book, the internet has fed a lot of paranoia and if customers ask fr this (and others) or they get incentives/publicity for offering these 'fixes' then they are a business at the end of the day.

The percentage of Porsche owners who take a technical interest in their cars oe get 'spanners on' is low and the market is rife for this kind of thing.

 

[Niall996]

Do not doubt that the indie you mention has a good reputation and many satisfied customers - there are lots of indies that fall into this category.

Just because they offer the DOF and other 'fixes' does not make them bad in my book, the internet has fed a lot of paranoia and if customers ask fr this (and others) or they get incentives/publicity for offering these 'fixes' then they are a business at the end of the day.

The percentage of Porsche owners who take a technical interest in their cars oe get 'spanners on' is low and the market is rife for this kind of thing.

If a DOF is completely unnecessary as has been ardently argued then Indies recommending them for 'business' is in my view extremely bad. Not only is it a rip off, but it's a very deliberate feed into the hysteria which then gets amplified by the magazines. And it should be called out. I have no problem with indies promoting their business around fixes they genuinely believe in and know to be valid. I welcome that wholeheartedly. At the end of the day, DOF either is valid or not. Someone is right and someone is wrong.

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Indeed - my view (and others) is they are wrong, along with the ceramic bearing pedlars as well.

I have no commercial interest and am happy to speak out.

Simple fixes, very rare issue - end of.