911 GTS Coupe Advice

[heggem]

Hi All,

I searched and found the forum today and have been impressed with the content, knowledge of posters and most of all the maturity of the posts here.

Over the years I have owned a number of sporty but average cars such as the Civic Type R and Honda S2000. I enjoyed these and found the Civic to be the most fun as it was easy to push hard and still maintain good control.

I found myself able to take a big step up in performance in and got one of the first R8 V8's in the UK which was absolutely fantastic. I eventually parted with it as I didn't like the attention it attracted because it was so new. Since then I've had the S8, RS6 Avant, Nissan GTR and Jaguar XKR and my current R8 V10.

I love the R8 as it is easy to use every day and has immense handling and is extremely forgiving. It leaves me a little cold however and feels like I am driving a arcade game.

I've considered a 911 many times but didn't go for it as I felt it was just a bit obvious and perhaps plain. I own a Cayenne GTS which for a 4x4 is the best I have driven and gives me immense pleasure for what it is. All of the 911 owners I know have never switched back to anything else as they say it is the most complete drivers experience.

I'm now seriously considering a new 911 GTS Coupe and have an overnight test drive this week. After spending many hours researching, the general consensus seems to be that it offers great value and is very well set up.

I like to drive hard but I also like to keep well within my limits. The R8 V10 is the only car that makes my adrenaline flow every time I boot it.

I have a few concerns and hoped I could canvas opinion.

With the GTS being rear wheel drive I am a little worried that I may get caught out in the wet and not be able to fully exploit the car or perhaps not be able to drive with complete confidence. The R8 is very forgiving in most conditions. I want to have fun and feel safe and in control. Would I be better with the 4S?

Whilst I love the shape of the 997 the rear end is the thing that I'm not 100% on. With the Aerokit I think it looks far more balanced. Having read a few posts here it seems that the Aerokit causes access problems with kerbs, speed bumps etc. Should I ignore it or could I learn to manage my driving to negate the clearance issues?

I really would like to do a few track days and am considering the PCCB but it obviously adds a tremendous amount to the list price and running costs. Is it really worth it for a couple of track days a year or does it add a lot to the road experience.

Is the rear wiper worth it, I feel I'd not be happy if I didn't go for it and couldn't see the police creeping up on me! I know in the scale of things it's not massively expensive but every penny counts.

I'm a big guy and have moved away from manual cars as I have to twist my legs to access the pedals properly which causes massive fatigue over time. Some reviews say ignore the PDK some say go for it. I want to go for it but is there a major reason why not? Also I wasn't sure which seat/leather combo to go for. I want the widest seat for my fat ass and like the alcantara touches but also want a leather dash etc.

I'm going to go for Sport Chrono Plus and thought of the PASM, is this a worthwhile option?

Apologies for the long post, it's a big decision and I want to get it right and stay with the car for a good period of time. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks In Advance,

Heggem

 

[GT4]

Not wanting to be nasty, but a lot of those questions are personal choice and so you will get a mixture of answers one way and another.

Quite honestly, what anyone says will be either confirmed or denied (or simply put at the top or bottom of your wish/need list) during some decent test drives, plus of course it should be lots of fun.

So get down to your local OPC and make them aware of your seriousness to buy and spend the day driving the lot back-to-back.

If the salesman or dealership does not take you seriously (and these cars are a serious chunk of cash), then walk away.

Personally, I would want a 4WD (unless I can't), rear seats (unless I can't), rear wiper (unless I can't) and I love the Aerokit (which in itself is not that low, it's just the removeable/removed! front splitter that can catch). PS - if you spec a GTS make sure it has extended leather to avoid the dashboard to embarrass a Nissan and "wipe clean" rear seats from McDonalds.

PDK is amazing, but I love manuals for the interaction. I guess it is the fact it can go wrong (in missing a gear or missing the timing) that makes it that much more satisfying when it goes exactly right. Plus no one second guesses when you place it in whichever gear you choose, for good or bad. If you have a practical need for an auto, then all that is irrelevant.

As for PCCB, the enormous cost seems to convince some to replace with steels for tracking. Plus some do and some don't get on with the slightly different feel (they can be more wooden until warmed up).

PASM is standard across the range, except entry level 3.6 Carrera.

Sport chrono is probably a gimmick or trinket on all but the Turbo due to its debateable usefulness (there is no performance benefit except possibly in PDK agressiveness in the top setting and overboost on the Turbo). Of course if you want a carriage clock on the dash, it is irreplaceable.

For me, I would seriously consider (as much as they are a key feature of the GTS) dropping the centre-lock wheels, especially if it is a keeper.

Either you or your tyre fitter will get pretty fed up with them, unless you only expect the OPC to supply and fit. You don't get any tools with it (including the actual "key" to unscrew or the assistant "dildo" required so you don't break the PCCBs. That should tell you all you need to know. However, if you do need to know more do a search on "centre-nut/centre-lock" - with and without hyphen).

Pop some nice Fuchs-alike on instead :thumb:

PS - :welcome:

 

[ResB]

GT4 has got it right if I am honest, however, I feel the need to post my personal opinion.

1. Although 4WD is likely to give you more confidence in the wet, you will be amazed at the level of grip in the 2WD derivatives. I never once powered out of a corner in my C2S and thought, oh, I wish I had 4 wheel drive. You'll get more smiles per mile in the 2WD car IMO.

2. Aerokit. Yeah, your likely to catch the front now and then, but for me it's no biggie, be careful. Personally I can take the Aerokit or leave it. Both looks well.

3. PCCB are great. But as GT4 says, steel brakes tend to be the preferred choice for the track goer. Certainly cheaper that's for sure. In my experience PCCB certainly work well, but not that much better than standard when warmed up (save the fading after 10 laps of the track) but offers nothing in terms of re-sale other than desirability. Expensive to replace.

4. Ditch the wiper. Never had one issue not having it and I drove mine everyday in "all" weather. As you like the lines of your cars the wiper ruins it for me. Controversial.

5. PDK. Yes I like manual cars. Having driven the Turbo with PDK it is epic. Would I buy a GTS with PDK? Absolutely.

6. As for Sports Chrono and PASM. Yes and Yes. Personal preference and I loved both.

7. Buy the GTS, the best value 911 on the market. :thumb:

....you still here?

 

[911UK]

Add some driving training http://911uk.com/template.php?page=69

at Millbrook by http://www.catdrivertraining.co.uk/ to help gain confidence in your own and the car's abilities

 

[Maxie]

Hi, welc ome to the forum :thumbs: Can't deny what's already been said above by ResB & GT4. However, would you be chopping and changing the R8 V10? If you're concerned about the 911 GTS' 2wd-train then why not consider the Turbo or even the Turbo S models? In terms of sheer performance they would be on a par for your R8 (more so than a GTS) and also they also have the benefit of 4wd as standard. If you spec the Sport Chrono option (or look for a pre-owned car with this already on it) then you have the overboost facility as well. The Turbo S only comes with the PDK transmission.

The Aero-Kit option discussed above has been re-designed for the Generation II 911 cars and as a result the front spoiler doesn't scrape as much as the Generation I front spoiler did because the later design is a little bit higher off the ground than the earlier design. The Aero-Kits for the Turbos differ in design to the Aero-Kits for the Carreras.

If you can, try to obtain brochures and the Exclusive brochures for these cars and verify the details. Good luck in your hunt - as you know it's the fun part of the 911 experience! If you need any help, post up a few example of the cars you are looking at and we can offer you our opinions.

~ Maxie

 

[sidlo]

What Maxie said, plus if as you say you are a big lad watch the seat option as they can be tight, especially the sport ones. The Audi seats are much more generous in this respect.

 

[PeterS]

I love the 2WD but like the "muscley" look of the wide body, so for me the GTS is perfect.

The PDK is the smoothest gearbox I have ever encountered, and launch control is fun, albeit gimmicky after 2 or 3 traffic lights.

Pound for pound they are good value, if you can say that a car that costs £70k but will be £90k by the time you have Bluetooth, PDK and a cabriolet.

They are tremendous fun to drive, and as you should enjoy driving then you should have a manual.

 

[spyderman]

I agree with the responses that say many of your questions can only be answered by personal choice. Find a cooperative dealer and get extended loans of both a C2 and a C4 - S versions where available! Some dealers will also have a GTS demonstrator by now too.

Two additional comments from experience:
Don't buy a PDK car without Sport Chrono.
Remember that even with the 4WD versions, the vast majority of traction goes to the back wheels until you actually start to loose grip.

 

[betternotbigger]

This might be controversial to some but I cannot for the life of me see why anyone feels you need 4WD on a 911. I live in the Yorkshire Dales and have a holiday home in the Highlands of Scotland so believe me I suffer every day the very worst that Britain's weather can throw at us.

I use winter tyres from Nov - Mar and I'll bet any one of you Turbo or C4 drivers my car (properly shod) can beat yours in an uphill standing hill start on ice and snow (unless you've got winter tyres too).

And on summer tyres in the rain the level of grip is still phenomenal. You have to seriously mistreat the car to get it out of shape.

What is more, a huge part of the appeal of a 911 is its unique weight distribution, a factor compromised to the tune of 70kg by the 4WD transmission, not to mention 70kg of unnecessary extra weight in a sports car.

The GTS looks to me like the perfect 911. And if I was looking today, I'd have one in a flash. PDK or manual - they're both good. Sports seats are snug so perhaps standard seats for the OP. Happy hunting.

 

[GT4]

The AWD is idiot proof (I know, I've tried :grin.

The weight distribution is marginally better on the AWD too.

Certainly on the 996, the steering feel was improved by the slightly better planting of the front.

Of course for a 997, if you don't get a GTS or GT3 RS, the only way to a widebody is an AWD.

 

[Simonc]

Welcome to the forum. I have been driving my GTS for the last couple of months. Agree with most of the posts and can only give my opinion.
Having had both 2 and 4 wheel drive 911's I personally prefer the 2 since it feels more involved IMO. I have never to date got into trouble with it and find the level of grip fantastic. The PDK box if you do a lot of town driving is fantastic and responds brilliantly. If you don't end up in traffic then I am sure the manual is a more involved drive but I did not fancy the effort on a daily run. Throttle blips on the shift down sound great!
I always had the wiper on previous cars and was worried not ticking the box on the GTS. You won't miss it and the lines are much nicer without. A bit of rainex every now and again will keep it clean. Aerokit is personal choice. The car brings enough attention in standard form and again I prefer the cleaner lines without.
Having said all that, whatever you decide, I think you will love it. Soft enough on the crappy roads to enjoy but hit the sport button and stamp on the gas and you will be smiling. Porsche have had many years to refine this generation of car and they have bolted most of he best bits onto one car at a good price.In comparison to the standard c2s I had before, the difference for me has been huge. Enjoy your test drive and look forward to hearing all about your decision. :thumbs:

 

[Speedtrap]

I had the chance to drive a 2011 Convertible GTS PDK with the paddle shift with the optional sports chrono 2 weeks ago; it is a wonderful car and the 23bhp gain is very welcome and noticeable especially when you want to take it out of corners BUT it does not provide the traction as you get with the AWD. You can easily get that responsiveness by visiting DMS with a C4S.

I have the 2010 C4S PDK with the paddle, and it is really hard to breach the limits especially around corners. Personally I would go for a AWD anyday.

PCCB I would say does NOT make any sense for what you are paying unless you are tracking the car very often.

My 2p worth....