Starting The Search For A 997.1 C2S - Hartech Rebuilt

[Alex]

Don't want to burst your bubble, but they aren't expensive to run, but they really aren't cheap. Tyres, MP4S that is, all round is £800 odd. New brakes and discs all round is £1200 or so. I just had a major service done, £650, minor quite a bit cheaper.

You don't have to pay that though if you don't want too. I've just had new front discs and pads fit for under £200.

This was the price of the parts:

1 104330518 Pagid Brake Disc (Front Left) £53.82
1 104330528 Pagid Brake Disc (Front Right) £53.82
1 101330488 Pagid Brake Pad (Front) £43.35
Subtotal £150.99
Coupon Benefit -£27.18
Delivery Charges ( Economy ) £0.00
Total £123.81

I paid £21 for rear pads last year and fit them myself in about an hour.

I have Falkens all round for £495 fitted.

 

[Jackzi]

Take it from me, I've been looking for nearly two years:
you get what you pay for.

And paying 20 grand won't get you a good 997S. Let alone a rebuilt one.

Also, some adverts state 'full engine rebuild' and when you look at the paperwork, it turns out a couple of cylinders were done. Or just bank 2. There's nothing wrong with that per se. But be aware that sometimes a 'rebuild' is not necessarily what you think it is.

It's not cheap any which way you slice it.

 

[Hertsdriver]

Brakes are not £800 if you do them yourself, plus most people don't replace all 4 tyres at the same time... a major can indeed cost £650 but is only once every 4 years...IMO.

There 2 cars with new opc fitted engines on auto trader, one st 28.5, the other at 22...

Also one on ph with full rebuild for 22

 

[Sy]

Based on what you want and the money you have available to spend you are close, but you might find that you need to get a few more quid on finance to close any deals. You might get lucky with some cheeky offers to private sellers which is worth a go since you aren't in any rush to buy, you'll just need to setup alerts on auto-trader/eBay and keep checking so you get in there early (it worked for me, bought a car from a private seller the day it was loaded to the site since it was priced low). Also cars which have not shifted for a while and are still being sold around autumn/winter when the market slows a bit might be a good shout, but do your checks since there is usually a reason they are hanging around. Might also be worth loosening your grip on Hartech and re-built cars. Such a small risk at the end of the day.

Why no sports chrono? It works a treat to sharpen things up!

 

[Cannop]

Good luck with the search!

As has been mentioned I think £20k is a little light for a Hartech rebuilt example but you may get lucky. I looked for a year before I eventually found mine, a 2007 997.1 C2S with a whole host of extras including the sports chrono plus package.

To give you an idea of what's realistic mine had undergone a complete Hartech closed deck rebuild at 77k and came with receipts totalling £30k that the previous (2nd) owner had spent maintaining the car for the 6 years he owned it, it had really been looked after. It had 108k on it when I bought it and I paid £23k for it, that also included a set of winter wheels and tyres that had been refinished and had new tyres fitted the previous year.

Even with all that service history it still needed some money spending as in the discs were getting to the end of their life, the rear back boxes struggled to get through the previous MOT and the power steering pump was beginning to get noisy. The seller was up front with all this info and wanted to upgrade the car before it was necessary to spend on these jobs.

There were also a few jobs I wanted to do such as ditch the PCM2.1, get the leather treated and change the tyres which were P zeros and didn't inspire much confidence in the wet, but these were all jobs that could be part of a rolling refresh.

In short, don't dismiss the chrono pack, take your time looking and you may get lucky. Be aware that any enthusiast after a 997.1 will be looking for the same thing so be prepared to move fast!

Here's how mine looks today.

 

[T8]

...... Really, don't believe the hype. On here, we say 3 to 5% of cars actually suffer from Bore Scoring (spoke to someone in an OPC who said he had been told at a porsche day that porsche say 2%, proven by data) .........

:eh!:

How on earth would Porsche know how many cars have suffered from bore-scoring?

Their 'data proven' 2% could only be based on cars that they are aware of so must be way understated.

Sadly I suspect that the 3-5% you quote as being said 'on here' is also a conservative figure.

 

[Alex]

I think he meant per month T8. :grin:

 

[yacht broker]

not a C2S, but i have just put my rebuilt c2 up for sale

http://911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=9103

Silver, Black leather, heated sports seats, Sport Design wheels etc etc

The rebuild wasn't carried out by Hartech, but it was done by a recognised Porsche specialist. I have all the invoices for the work and it was warranted for two years. I have since spent around £4.5k over just over 2yrs on sorting out the rest (suspension refresh, new engine mounts, new a/c rads, low temp thermostat etc etc etc). The car runs on Millers oils as per Hartech recommendations (will be serviced with Millers again this week), and there is also Millers gearbox oil.

It's a great car which has never let me down, but the wife now wants another VW camper van and I have just bought a classic Lancia, so it's time to find a new custodian for the 911

 

[Robert SausageTrousers]

^^ Lovely looking car!

I agree with T8, I can't see how Porsche would be able to gather data on bore scoring, it's not as if every independent garage informs them when they get a scored car in, and I think although it's definitely over-egged on here, the chances of bore score are a fair bit higher than 3-5%.

Undeniably Hartech are the dogs danglies in this area but don't discount cars that have been fully rebuilt elsewhere, there are a lot of other independents that know their onions and whilst the hartech rebuild is most desirable that certainly doesn't mean that you can't have tens of thousands of trouble free miles out of a car that has had a full rebuild done elsewhere, it's easy to get caught up in the hype but with your budget you might find you need to compromise somewhere.

 

[Hertsdriver]

I agree with the above (and that that is a lovely car above :thumb: )
The Hartech solution is clearly 'belt and braces' (and possibly over engineered to take into account the large number of tiptronic cars which tend to suffer more from scoring due to the way the gearbox works and the strain this places on the engine...), however a manual car with a new/replacement engine from OPC or a well rebuilt engine from a different specialist that has been properly looked after should give no issues, as long as the owner looks after the car, using good quality oil, warming up the car properly, not over revving until warm, fitting a lower temperature thermostat to enable cooler running temperatures etc

 

[NLW73]

i bought a c2s tip with a rebuild (as was looking for that) with higher mileage (it was late 80s on an 05 plate so still low for 13 year old car!). originally wanted a manual but have converted to paddles using the Merc AMG ones and its surprisingly good. not like a modern PDK or DSG but it work.

rebuild was done by phoenix motorsport who are known to hartech (?) and they were fixing the car for a family friend who had fallen on hard times (wife had cleaned him out)

the receipts for work is huge. has all hartech parts and liners which they were happy to supply. car had new crank, shells and loads of other bits including pistons so was nearly a new engine.

the bill was still £9k cash but its what I wanted in terms of car and engine. needed some paint and interior sorting but well worth it.

does not burn oil and runs like a dream . loads of bills and repairs with it and its been a riot and cheap to mod too. I do love NA 2wd cars so you pay less of a premium for them over the 4S wide body. depends on what you want really.

apparently Tips are more prone to bore score and engine issues due to the low down torque forces on the engine when you pull away as its in second not first. no idea really and depends on what you want and total luck of the draw. I like to put the car in manual mode and use the paddles to select 1st if in traffic or on a hill to reduce the load on the engine.

i reckon for 20-22k you can get a great car with a rebuild from hartech or good indy which has a solid engine and just run it. I plan to run mine as a daily for a few years and then take stock. I doubt it will lose much $$ over the years.

goes like stink now with exhaust and CATs and plenty there to lose your license. even get 32 mpg on a miss daisy run to work down the motorway

market has cooled a bit and buyers market so lots of options out there.

drive a few and see what you think. that is what I done. they are all so different its unreal.

tbh in real day use and on the road the 3.6 is just as good and capable as the 3.8. you don't get the torque but they rev harder and longer. tend to not come with PASM as standard and tend to sit higher but all that can be sorted with springs and a decent exhaust. I was after a nice dark grey 3.6 manual originally with that dark brown interior which i love but just missed out.

 

[a1butch]

not a C2S, but i have just put my rebuilt c2 up for sale

http://911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=9103

Silver, Black leather, heated sports seats, Sport Design wheels etc etc

The rebuild wasn't carried out by Hartech, but it was done by a recognised Porsche specialist. I have all the invoices for the work and it was warranted for two years. I have since spent around £4.5k over just over 2yrs on sorting out the rest (suspension refresh, new engine mounts, new a/c rads, low temp thermostat etc etc etc). The car runs on Millers oils as per Hartech recommendations (will be serviced with Millers again this week), and there is also Millers gearbox oil.

It's a great car which has never let me down, but the wife now wants another VW camper van and I have just bought a classic Lancia, so it's time to find a new custodian for the 911

Very well priced. I suspect this will not hang around for long!

 

[MEames]

Good luck with the search!

As has been mentioned I think £20k is a little light for a Hartech rebuilt example but you may get lucky. I looked for a year before I eventually found mine, a 2007 997.1 C2S with a whole host of extras including the sports chrono plus package.

To give you an idea of what's realistic mine had undergone a complete Hartech closed deck rebuild at 77k and came with receipts totalling £30k that the previous (2nd) owner had spent maintaining the car for the 6 years he owned it, it had really been looked after. It had 108k on it when I bought it and I paid £23k for it, that also included a set of winter wheels and tyres that had been refinished and had new tyres fitted the previous year.

Even with all that service history it still needed some money spending as in the discs were getting to the end of their life, the rear back boxes struggled to get through the previous MOT and the power steering pump was beginning to get noisy. The seller was up front with all this info and wanted to upgrade the car before it was necessary to spend on these jobs.

There were also a few jobs I wanted to do such as ditch the PCM2.1, get the leather treated and change the tyres which were P zeros and didn't inspire much confidence in the wet, but these were all jobs that could be part of a rolling refresh.

In short, don't dismiss the chrono pack, take your time looking and you may get lucky. Be aware that any enthusiast after a 997.1 will be looking for the same thing so be prepared to move fast!

Here's how mine looks today.

Looks fantastic - thanks for the info... it proves that they are out there for the right sort of money - I'm more than happy to look at something above the 100k mark and they seem to have a nice reduction in line with having 6 digits on the odometer.

I've run some numbers today with regards the finance side of things and stretching the repayments across 5 years (no issue as it's going to be a keeper) I could stretch to this sort of price without any real issue.

I'm looking forward to doing some work myself, and thankfully have access to a ramp and ability to do brakes / suspension / exhaust / trim .etc myself.

It's just the engine I want to safeguard against as if it went on a un-rebuilt example at say £18k I'd not have the cash to get it fixed (properly) without some delay.

 

[lex524]

not a C2S, but i have just put my rebuilt c2 up for sale

http://911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=9103

Silver, Black leather, heated sports seats, Sport Design wheels etc etc

The rebuild wasn't carried out by Hartech, but it was done by a recognised Porsche specialist. I have all the invoices for the work and it was warranted for two years. I have since spent around £4.5k over just over 2yrs on sorting out the rest (suspension refresh, new engine mounts, new a/c rads, low temp thermostat etc etc etc). The car runs on Millers oils as per Hartech recommendations (will be serviced with Millers again this week), and there is also Millers gearbox oil.

It's a great car which has never let me down, but the wife now wants another VW camper van and I have just bought a classic Lancia, so it's time to find a new custodian for the 911

Wow, I just bought a C2S with 60k miles but no rebuild for 21k... I think if this had been on I would have got it instead! Did full PPI and bore score clear (some markings, minor, no worry yet), but still.... I saw a few partial rebuilds advertised, some with one 1 cylinder done! Agree with everything said here - make sure it's done fully if you are paying a premium. 20k is a bit light, might mean it will need a service or tyres soon (which cost a bit), so worth considering the whole 2 year cost of ownership...

p.s. thats a lovely photo!

 

[brownspeed]

not a C2S, but i have just put my rebuilt c2 up for sale


It's a great car which has never let me down, but the wife now wants another VW camper van and I have just bought a classic Lancia, so it's time to find a new custodian for the 911

Can we have a pic of the Lancia please??