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Quick update on my hunt for a 997.1 C4S

spinnaker

Hockenheim
Joined
19 Apr 2021
Messages
654
Hi all,

First up a big thank you to you all for the help over the last few months. I first started a thread back in April asking for advice on where to look for a car and since then you have been super helpful with my many questions.

When I first started my research in April I had a few people get in touch but it was too early to know what I was looking for.

I eventually naively posted a lengthy wanted ad in the forum WTB and expected to get a few matches but now reckon I was expecting too much given the few C4S cars around. I didn't get the response I was expecting.

Since then I have had a few near misses with cars being sold privately via FB groups but I have been stung twice by cars with scoring issues (one minor and one major). This has been annoying because I'm keen to get driving.

So what has changed in the last couple of months?
- Prices have gone up! The pool of cars in my price range seems to be less and less and dealer prices show no sign of slowing down. I find myself pondering the wisdom of buying now.
- I have learned a lot about the cars despite not yet owning one!
- I am no longer looking for my dream spec - I am open to the full spectrum of C4S cars available with middle mileage. This is disappointing but I guess you have to look at what becomes available.
- I'd love to find one of these mythical Hatech rebuilt cars I have heard about. I see a few 2S cars pop up but nothing much on the C4S side.
- I have a million tabs open in my web browser for all the big search sites and dealers. This has become a morning ritual for me. Not sure what I'll do with my time when one day I actually find a car!
- I see the summer fun being had by you all and want to be a part of this.
- I go through nervous phases of worrying about scoring on non-rebuilt cars. I know this doesn't affect all cars by any means but based on my own experience of getting to a point of having PPIs done on 2 cars has left me with a (hopefully) skewed view on the issue.
- In hindsight I regret not pouncing on several cars that I ruled out for probably silly reasons at the time.
- I do occasionally flirt with the idea of switching focus for the many more readily available 2S cars out there but still have my heart set on a wide body C4S.

I am not totally sure why I am writing this post or if this will be of interest. It has just been good having your support on this journey so far. :thumb:

I am disheartened but still fortunately an optimist. For now my hunt continues...
 
An option might be to make a low offer for a scored car, then get it up to Hartech. Might cost a bit more overall, but you know you have a perfect car then with scope for additional personalisation.
 
Thanks RobertB. That could indeed be an option. I think I'll probably expand my search to look at C2S Hartech rebuilt cars too and see what comes up.
 
Based on my personal experience, I'd recommend something similar to what Robertb describes.
Buy a lower cost car, drive it for a while and budget for a full Hartech job.
You get to enjoy it to start with, learn what you need to do and then get it sorted by the absolute best, after which you won't have any worries and get to enjoy it even more!
 
It has been interesting reading your journey as I took the complete opposite approach. I decided late last year that I would get a 911 and I had a figure in my head. For some reason I landed on the Portiacraft site and I didn't look much further. They had an ever-changing stock and the prices were in my range.

I started researching a little more so I wouldn't ask really dumb questions, but due to work-related circumstances, I never moved beyond looking at the website. I saw ones I liked and they went quickly, and I saw prices creeping up.

Roll forward to June and I just made the decision to buy one - yet I still hadn't really decided on a model and spec. I arranged to test drive a beautiful 993 cab at Goss Hall Classics, and I saw some potential candidates at Portiacraft including a Cat D 997 C4S. I contacted Harry and booked a test drive in the Cat D, but with the idea I might try some others.

Long story short, I loved the 997 and it was way less than the 993. The car had been listed on their website on Tuesday afternoon and I got in first to book a test drive on Thursday morning. I drove it, loved it and bought it immediately - no PPI and no eval of scoring. It had FSH and just over 35K.

I wanted a car I could use as a daily drive, and I figured that with the discount I got on it being a Cat D, I already had a pot for future work. Portiacraft have a guaranteed fixed price for a rebuild for 997.1s so I felt happy with that.

I have loved every second driving the car and I have no regrets. I wanted it to drive and not as an appreciating asset. If scoring becomes an issue, I will pay the money to get the engine rebuilt and I have factored that in.

I'm not recommending the way I bought it, but on reflection I'm happy I did that and didn't spend weeks/months waiting for the perfect car. Of course, Cat D cars are not for the faint-hearted and most people will walk away. Only time will tell if it's been a good gamble.

So what's the moral of the story? Number one is you have to be happy with your purchase. No point in sleepless nights over what may go wrong. But with limited budgets there are always compromises - unless you are willing to wait for that unicorn! This forum and others offer great advice from the members, but remember it is only advice, and ultimately it is your decision.

Of most importance is being able to get behind the wheel of the car, listen to that roar, and feel like a kid again. My first thought on buying the car was I wish I had bought one years ago.

Wishing you luck in finding that car soon.
 
CB911C4S said:
I have loved every second driving the car and I have no regrets. I wanted it to drive and not as an appreciating asset. If scoring becomes an issue, I will pay the money to get the engine rebuilt and I have factored that in...

Of most importance is being able to get behind the wheel of the car, listen to that roar, and feel like a kid again. My first thought on buying the car was I wish I had bought one years ago.

Wishing you luck in finding that car soon.

Great points above.

You need to be prepared to rebuild any engine if you keep it long enough. The M97 has liner issues, but these are well documented and can be repaired to better than standard. It's part and parcel of the 997.1. I'd definitely always get a bore scope, but to be honest you have to accept that scoring could happen during your ownership and you might have to fork out for a repair.

The second point here is absolutely key and is the reason I went for the 'risky" 997.1 rather than saving for a 997.2. I wanted to own a 911 and the opportunity was there at that time. If I had kept saving I don't think I would have ever had the opportunity due to life getting in the way. I could also have fallen into the trap of the unicorn search.

The C4S is nice, but the C2S is more plentiful. At the end of the day only you can decide whether to take a C4S with potentially a worse spec, wait for the perfect one and accept a chunky asking price (and potentially competition for that unicorn!), or get hold of a C2S instead. To be honest if you find a non-S car with the right options it'll still be plenty fast enough and you can tailor the suspension to your liking in the future with the price saving.

Out of interest - what is your unicorn spec?

Many options, the main problem for you is the ridiculous market prices right now. Winter is always the best time to buy a sports car, but then you don't get to enjoy it in the good weather. Tricky one!

Good luck!
 
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the input.

Tom asked above what my unicorn spec is so here it is. I didn't think it would be too much of an ask tbh when I started looking.
- 997.1 C4S tip coupe ideally in grey or silver with black interior, Sports Chrono, electric seats, cruise control and embossed headrests upto 75k miles. Not having Sports Chrono/Cruise wouldn't be a deal breaker as I could get them retrofitted in time.

As of Friday I am now widening my search. So I guess I have a priority list I am working to now starting at the top and working downwards:

- 997.1 C4S tip coupe with a Hartech rebuild
- 997.1 C4S tip coupe with no signs of scoring
- 997.2 C2 PDK coupe if one happens to fortuitously pop up in my price range (not likely)
- 997.1 C2S tip coupe with a Hartech rebuild
- 997.1 C2S tip coupe with no signs of scoring from somewhere like RSJ

I don't love compromising as I worry I might regret it later, but realistically the concept of driving a problem-free Hartech rebuilt C2S would probably make my C4S desires disappear!

I guess I'll have to keep looking and see what pops up. We currently have a second lease car which needs to be returned in November so I do have some time. I'll just aim to pounce on cars as soon as they are listed.

Thanks again to you all.
 
It's amazing how few cars there are when you whittle it down to a 997.1 C4S tiptronic <80,000 miles. Prices soon start to climb to quite extraordinary levels for anything that looks decent.

Loads without sport chrono too which I thought was almost compulsory for a tiptronic! Perhaps someone could advise on whether a sprint booster and a DSC module might be a smart move in its absence these days (providing the rest of the spec is correct).
 
tom_nieto said:
It's amazing how few cars there are when you whittle it down to a 997.1 C4S tiptronic <80,000 miles. Prices soon start to climb to quite extraordinary levels for anything that looks decent.

Loads without sport chrono too which I thought was almost compulsory for a tiptronic! Perhaps someone could advise on whether a sprint booster and a DSC module might be a smart move in its absence these days (providing the rest of the spec is correct).

Indeed! 4 in the UK on AT at the moment.
 
Ian_C said:

Sadly I think RSJ are now out of my price range after these 2 cars nudged their prices up from £33k to £37k/£38k in the last couple of weeks.

I would happily buy a car from RSJ as I think they seem to sell near enough immaculate cars with a no quibble warranty period. I know there is value in that but not sure if it is worth £5k over other prices.

Thanks though!
 
porkerjag said:
:lol: No signs of scoring its only a matter of time until it will have

Asking seriously here, do you really feel that the failure rate is 100% or close to that?

There are no solid stats anywhere. I can't figure out if I have been unlucky with the last 3-4 cars I have viewed which have turned out that way or if it is really actually near to 100% or not.

I'd be interested to know what you reckon. Have you had personal experience of a 997.1 with scoring?
 
Just a thought but I reckon you're going to have to compromise on colour; I know that there were a lot of silver and grey cars, but there are others out there. If you hate it, you could always get a wrap? :dont know:
 
spinnaker said:
Ian_C said:

Sadly I think RSJ are now out of my price range after these 2 cars nudged their prices up from £33k to £37k/£38k in the last couple of weeks.

I would happily buy a car from RSJ as I think they seem to sell near enough immaculate cars with a no quibble warranty period. I know there is value in that but not sure if it is worth £5k over other prices.

Thanks though!

No worries. Yeah prices are crazy now. I bought my 07 C4S manual with 52k on clock for 31k in September last year from RSJ. At the time I new I had paid a premium, but if I was to buy it now I guess they would want close to 40k!
 

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