PDK the Porsche automatic gearbox, or is it? Yes it is!

[Newbe]

Hi all

I was hoping this good group of people could give me a logical reason why the PDK gearbox is not classed as an automatic gearbox?? I need some convincing, after all it:

Changes gear for you
If you put your foot down a bit harder, it still changes gear for you
To drive you put it in drive on a selector
To accelerate after putting it in drive you push the accelerator ONLY (no clutch control)
So what if it has flappy paddles, it means ***** all, a lot of people I drive with doesn't even use them.
You only have two pedals, stop and go, very much like an automatic really
This isn't an age thing!! It's a practical, mechanical and terminology thing!

In my mind the PDK is automatic as it's doing it all for you as above.

Now the cleaver marketing guys at Porsche say, oh no its still has a clutch and it has no torque converter so it's not an automatic, it's a PDK. Automatic means it's doing it for you!! the design means ***** all, doesn't matter how, the point is the driver isn't controlling it. However, that doesn't sound quite as good saying do you want Automatic or manual when spending £100k, does it? Driving an auto always had a bit of a stigma back in the day, not much of a drivers car etc. So to avoid this hey presto, PDK, and people bought into it, but why?? Because you've spent hundreds of thousands or tens of thousands on an automatic car? PDK sounds more technical.

So, why is the PDK not an auto? maybe all you auto guys can help? :grin:

 

[Tourist]

Simply because PDK is an automated manual and not a torque converter (like Tiptronic). I view the latter as a traditional automatic with manual override.

DVLA would agree with you though that as PDK has no clutch pedal, it is an auto and therefore suitable for auto-only licence holders.

 

[Roro]

I wouldn't express it in quite the same way, but I agree with the sentiment. I also see things in a similar black and white fashion. To me, manual means you have a clutch pedal, if you don't have a clutch pedal then you have some form of automatic - PDK, DSG, DCT, torque convertor, etc

PS While I'm a manual die hard when it comes to sports/sporty cars, anything else has to be auto for me. Just suits my intended usage better. Wifey has a DSG and I find it quite good fun hooning around in 'manual' mode (but with the lever, I love punching it up and down, I don't use the paddles as they don't feel very nice to use, they're just not tactile enough). Interestingly though, I hate using the lever on my F30 for manual changes as the +/- are the opposite to the DSG and so it feels like they're the wrong way around. Might see if there's some way I can mod this and have the +/- switched around

 

[Newbe]

I wouldn't express it in quite the same way, but I agree with the sentiment. I also see things in a similar black and white fashion. To me, manual means you have a clutch pedal, if you don't have a clutch pedal then you have some form of automatic - PDK, DSG, DCT, torque convertor, etc

PS While I'm a manual die hard when it comes to sports/sporty cars, anything else has to be auto for me. Just suits my intended usage better. Wifey has a DSG and I find it quite good fun hooning around in 'manual' mode (but with the lever, I love punching it up and down, I don't use the paddles as they don't feel very nice to use, they're just not tactile enough). Interestingly though, I hate using the lever on my F30 for manual changes as the +/- are the opposite to the DSG and so it feels like they're the wrong way around. Might see if there's some way I can mod this and have the +/- switched around

😄 'I wouldn't express it quite that way", it's just how I saw it, no filter.🤦🏻"â™‚️

I also have another car which is an auto, or whatever Audi call it. I enjoy both cars the same as yourself but for different reasons.

It was the PDK thing not being an auto which baffles me. It's good hearing other peoples opinions and thoughts.

👍

 

[OttoOtto]

I wouldn't express it in quite the same way, but I agree with the sentiment. I also see things in a similar black and white fashion. To me, manual means you have a clutch pedal, if you don't have a clutch pedal then you have some form of automatic - PDK, DSG, DCT, torque convertor, etc

PS While I'm a manual die hard when it comes to sports/sporty cars, anything else has to be auto for me. Just suits my intended usage better. Wifey has a DSG and I find it quite good fun hooning around in 'manual' mode (but with the lever, I love punching it up and down, I don't use the paddles as they don't feel very nice to use, they're just not tactile enough). Interestingly though, I hate using the lever on my F30 for manual changes as the +/- are the opposite to the DSG and so it feels like they're the wrong way around. Might see if there's some way I can mod this and have the +/- switched around

😄 'I wouldn't express it quite that way", it's just how I saw it, no filter.🤦🏻"â™‚️

I also have another car which is an auto, or whatever Audi call it. I enjoy both cars the same as yourself but for different reasons.

It was the PDK thing not being an auto which baffles me. It's good hearing other peoples opinions and thoughts.

👍

As above - PDK is an automatic 'box. Yes it has wet clutches as opposed to a torque converter but there's not much between the two, BMW use the ZF in the M3 now. I guess my answer is that the electronics are doing the PDK clutch shift for you without the need for your foot to (Luddite alert coming from someone that never really mastered heel and toe ) press and release and external clutch plate (but appreciate I'm stating the bleedin' obvious ).

But I do buy in to the marketing in the sense that PDK offers quite a bit of driver input, for example a flick of the throttle (not kick down) will take you to the lowest possible gear. And then obviously the sport plus manual option of only responding to your input (no mercy there!).

To me PDK is as close as you can get to a sequential box but with the public-road-necessity to skip gears (and quieter and no need to rebuild the 'box every service).

 

[MaxA]

In my view the PDK is an automatic, in that it doesn't have a clutch pedal, even if it's an automated manual, but that doesn't bother me one bit. Sometimes it's helpful, if you need to grind through some traffic, and it's definitely great when you take it to the track, for full bore shifts at the red line.

And if I'd found a manual when I bought the car back in 2015, I would have bought that but I'm not looking back with regret.

I have another car with a good manual gearbox (a six speed Getrag), with a lightweight flywheel, an uprated clutch and LSD and that's enough to keep me happy.

 

[Roro]

I do wonder sometimes, everyone here knows (well, the ones that care about this anyway), that 997 manuals have anti-stall? I think 996s do too

So even though I have a LWFW fitted, when I'm in traffic I'm usually just moving the clutch in and out, don't need to touch the loud pedal at all unless I'm on an incline

Which isn't too far off if you have an auto, in which case you're still pressing one pedal in traffic, it's just the accelerator pedal as opposed to a clutch
:?:

 

[Newbe]

I do wonder sometimes, everyone here knows (well, the ones that care about this anyway), that 997 manuals have anti-stall? I think 996s do too

So even though I have a LWFW fitted, when I'm in traffic I'm usually just moving the clutch in and out, don't need to touch the loud pedal at all unless I'm on an incline

Which isn't too far off if you have an auto, in which case you're still pressing one pedal in traffic, it's just the accelerator pedal as opposed to a clutch
:?:

I have a 997 manual and my wife has stalled it loads of times, normally pulling on the drive. You say everyone on here knows? I don't? And I've not seen it mentioned before? I believe your just referring to clutch control, it's not anti stall.

I would love to know how that works because mine isn't working?

 

[Roro]

I do wonder sometimes, everyone here knows (well, the ones that care about this anyway), that 997 manuals have anti-stall? I think 996s do too

So even though I have a LWFW fitted, when I'm in traffic I'm usually just moving the clutch in and out, don't need to touch the loud pedal at all unless I'm on an incline

Which isn't too far off if you have an auto, in which case you're still pressing one pedal in traffic, it's just the accelerator pedal as opposed to a clutch
:?:

I have a 997 manual and my wife has stalled it loads of times, normally pulling on the drive. You say everyone on here knows? I don't? And I've not seen it mentioned before? I believe your just referring to clutch control, it's not anti stall.

I would love to know how that works because mine isn't working?

I was told this by a Porsche specialist once, so just assumed it was a thing everyone knew about except me!

What I mean by anti stall is you just let the clutch out slowly and the revs will rise gently as the clutch engages, and you'll move off

Maybe I've just got the wrong end of the stick and this is a standard manual thing? My manual M2 was the same, so assumed that had anti stall as well

Now I'm wondering if someone has played a practical joke on me and this is just basic 'clutch control" as you describe it

:floor:

 

[Magic919]

Probably just the idle control valve doing its bit.

 

[deMort]

Technically the Tiptronic and the PDK are auto and manual gearboxes ..

In auto mode the car selects the gears due to driving conditions .. select manual and you decide when to change gear .. caveat being the car can override you if you go to extremes .

Porsche marketed the PDK as being an Automatic Manual gearbox .


There is im afraid no anti stall on these cars .. there is hill hold but not anti stall .. that would involve disengaging the clutch to prevent a stall then giving you a second attempt at it .. an F1 thing .

I drive cars with no throttle in and out of the workshop when needed .. a little clutch slip to get it moving then it drives on no throttle .. car will maintain idle revs via idle control as mentioned above .

Just my opinion anyways .

 

[Roro]

Technically the Tiptronic and the PDK are auto and manual gearboxes ..

In auto mode the car selects the gears due to driving conditions .. select manual and you decide when to change gear .. caveat being the car can override you if you go to extremes .

Porsche marketed the PDK as being an Automatic Manual gearbox .


There is im afraid no anti stall on these cars .. there is hill hold but not anti stall .. that would involve disengaging the clutch to prevent a stall then giving you a second attempt at it .. an F1 thing .

I drive cars with no throttle in and out of the workshop when needed .. a little clutch slip to get it moving then it drives on no throttle .. car will maintain idle revs via idle control as mentioned above .

Just my opinion anyways .

Thanks for clearing that up! So what I was told was 'anti-stall' sounds like just the idle control then. Regardless though, I usually move off without throttle, just clutch unless I'm on an uneven surface or incline
:thumb:

Ps pretty sure I don't have hill hold, must be a PDK thing

 

[easternjets]

We seem to be discussing this subject at length recently.

I posted on the other thread that's running, about an article in Total 911 issue 214 which went into great detail about how the double Clutch box was developed.
The article quotes the Tiptronic as an Automatic box and the PDK as a Dual Clutch transmission with valves and electronics operating the gear change. The gear change can be automatic or manual, which is more or less the same way that an automatic does but giving the best of both worlds.

You have to read the article to realise how all the hydraulics and electronics come together to operate the dual clutches and how it was continuously developed from 1973 onwards by Porsche themselves.

I think in simple terms because the PDK has a clutch that engages and disengages the drive then it's classed as a manual. The fact that it has an electronic brain doing the timing and changing of the box, then people see it as an Automatic.

All I know is that's a brilliant piece of design and I'd choose a PDK over a manual in nearly every car I owned.