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Not just another values thread...

highway

Mexico City
Joined
8 Nov 2007
Messages
1,805
There hasn't been a new, multi paged, well argued thread on here for some time. I want to talk about about something I've been considering for a while. Nominally concerning 993 values. Also about the future of motoring as we know, or have known it.

The times they are a changing. I read an article in the Sunday Times yesterday, talking about the increased use of digital cameras on the motorway network. There are already digital cameras in use between jnc 5 and 6 on the M25, geared to issue fines for those driving in excess of the speed limit. Probably a real world 80mph plus and you are looking at a fine. These cameras will replace all those using wet film and over the next few years. They will proliferate all over the UK motorway network in time.

I recently took part in the TFL consultation regarding the proposed ultra low emission zone in London. In short this is suggesting that vehicles failing to meet the latest, stringent emission requirements, won't be allowed to enter an area ( the current congestion zone) without paying an additional charge. I think £15 per day. The end of the consultation asks for opinions about rolling out something similar to other towns. All about protecting air quality you see...

On the other hand I'm aware how 993 prices have spiked in the past few years. My own car has risen in value close to 50% over the past 5 years. I bought an Elise in 1998. At that time I could have also bought a used Dino. That same Dino has jumped in value closer to 80% in the same time frame.

So here's the question. Attitudes to speed and emissions are changing. I think in the next 10 years digital cameras will be everywhere. Early morning drives out for fun will become harder to enjoy as speed limits reduce and enforcement becomes more draconian. It's likely that you won't be able to drive old, polluting cars in many larger towns without paying heavily for the privelige.

Where will this leave values of older, fast cars?

I can see if you have an ultra low miles example of something classic or interesting, the values will likely continue to go up. I don't see a price crash for old Porsche, Ferrari or anything like that.

But what about older, interesting cars that aren't fit for concours or display purposes? If you can't drive them in towns without getting financially clobbered and you can't drive them quickly for fear of reprisals then what exactly is the point of having them?

You can fire it up in your garage. Sit in it, Rev it. But take it on the road for a trip to a town and find yourself paying dearly for the pleasure. Petrol prices currently at a 7 year low. We know this won't last and £1.50 plus per litre isn't far away. What will all this do to values?

In the future I think driverless cars, which don't have emissions to speak of, will be the way cars go. Assuming I'm right, what happens to the values of heavily polluting sports cars that ARENT quite good enough to be admired as art?

I'm in two minds as to what's likely to happen. What do you think?
 
Interesting subject. Is the death of the petrol engine going to happen? Will it kill these cars?....

Over the next few years, added to the cameras is the likelihood of Insurance co's starting to use in-car trackers, so they know exactly what you are up to, etc.

I walk through Berkeley Square every day and this area is clearly a focal point of manufacturers and government trying to push "electric" cars. I see rows of all sorts of cars charging, from tiny 2-seat shopping trolleys to very impressive luxury electric limo's and everything in between. It strikes me that this is the future, whether we like it or not (and I do like it). I note also that this year Toyota launch the first hydrogen fuel-cell car. With volume, prices will drop and performance will rise.

Then you have the "Google car", how fast will they catch on, if at all? Personally, I think self driving cars are inevitable in my life time.

The relevance? I agree that our cars will be taxed out of city centres and eventually banned there. I'm not even sure I want to fight that move - I like the idea of a modern city being fume-free and safe.

What impact will this have on our cars...sorry, no idea! :-/
 
It's a very interesting question.

I had despaired a few years ago that due to cameras and the roads themselves that the days of speeding were over. Driving 20 miles to find a bit of road I could make 160 without ending up getting nicked. So I got the Elise and had the time of my life in the rural cotswold lanes where I live. The 170mph car in a 70mph world were over.

Doh! Stepped back up to speed with the 911's and in that time the camera/traffic thing virtually killed it for me. I have friends in Kent who ten years ago visited us and we them very regular, enjoying giving our Porsche and Lotus a good run, but now so many cameras have popped up over almost the entire route, and crawling traffic, both them and us started using a daily drivers instead as it was a waste of a good car, those days have gone forever.

In the last two years I saved all my speeding for Germany. I'm not interested in owning a 160+ mph car just for polishing or detailing or the 'thrill of just owning', standing in car parks and chatting about a row of near identical cars that saw none of their potential to get there. I want to floor it like I used to be able to. Running and owning all year round just for holiday use to be able to use it, made selling a no brainer.

I will have to think long and hard before buying a fast car again.

So the point I'm making is I think conditions will make our cars pointless long before any ban on them existing.


:?:
 
Electric and hybrid vehicles for use in the City is part of the solution but they have to be combined with far better public transport to make a difference. All private cars will be banned from the City and public transport will be zero emission. Some form of self drive cars will be available for the City but cant see how it can work cross country.

Speed cameras will increase however I believe the inevitable outcome will be 'the spy in the cab' - not sure how that works in a free democratic society :dont know:

Fossil fuels will eventually run out or get so scarce that you or I wont get access to it. Remember those little pellets Buck Rogers used to drop into the petrol tank of his retro trail bike when exploring alien planets.........that's the future right there :thumbs:

The timeline for all these things is beyond my lifespan so in the meantime I'll keep my foot in..........
 
Simplez, demand particularly for a porsche 993 will grow massively as will values, there you go, end of discussion, what's next :thumb:
 
I'm more annoyed that off peak travel cards zone 1-6 have gone up from £8.90 to £12 overnight. How is that helping
to encourage the use of public transport.

Just got myself a cool road bike and the strava app, and going as fast as I possibly can and loving it. Who needs a car lol.

As for the value of our cars?
They'll always be valuable as the Chinese will be cleverly buying them up at top dollar. Building their nuclear power stations daily you'd think China was on a different planet. Environment. :lol:
 
I love my "old persons" Freedom Pass ........ I really, really do love it ........:)

As for the 993 ........ it's the acceleration in each gear that's sweet and one can keep reasonably within the speed limits.

Top end speed is secondary for me ....... 150 mph plus on an autobahn ....... been there ...... seen it ....... done it ........ yawn.
 
madalaa said:
I love my "old persons" Freedom Pass ........ I really, really do love it ........:)

As for the 993 ........ it's the acceleration in each gear that's sweet and one can keep reasonably within the speed limits.

Top end speed is secondary for me ....... 150 mph plus on an autobahn ....... been there ...... seen it ....... done it ........ yawn.

You should have gone faster, it only gets scary over 180MPH :bandit:
 
madalaa said:
As for the 993 ........ it's the acceleration in each gear that's sweet and one can keep reasonably within the speed limits.

Top end speed is secondary for me ....... 150 mph plus on an autobahn ....... been there ...... seen it ....... done it ........ yawn.

I know exactly what you mean in terms of under the limit enjoyment madalaa.
:)

That's why I dropped out of Turbo Esprits and into the Elise. Thing is, compared to the Elise a car as heavy as the 993 is an absolute barge, it's still a great car, but it's loaded with unused ability, equipment, trim, comforts and weight that is as pointless as it is restrictive if you are trying to milk it's ability as the low speed roadster that it is not.

Below 70mph in the twistys it's a bit like buying a racehourse for pony trekking, there are simply brilliant sportscars that do it better, because with no high speed boast to meet they can be engineered to do just that and no more, they cost less and are more fun.

It IS still nice to know what the 993 is capable of though, a top trump in your back pocket. I guess there are plenty of 200mph+ Bugattis and Ferraris in this country that never see half that speed and are enjoyed as much as they can be...
:thumbs:

I mean some people buy cars to hang on the wall, or put in storage, they don't have to be used as intended or even used at all to please some owners.
:grin:
 
Can values of tatty but usable classics really continue to soar IF legislation, fuel cost, Insurance black boxes and changing mass opinion are all in the negative?
 
You only have to walk around Mayfair to realise the market in heavy fuel and classic car use in the icy will not go away. Mind you there are plenty of 'sheds' down the side streets but they just happen to be dusty Rollers, Merc SL etc

On the subject of cameras most are now digital SPECS certainly are including the gantry systems on motorways enforcing variable speed limits.

A few years the use of in car Cams will become the norm. Insurers now recognise a discount and for £20 it can be a no brainer to just leave it on a loop. :what:
 
highway said:

For exactly the reasons you state, the harder something is to own, with ever diminishing availability but enough desirability (god it looks better every year) and we will be looking back in astonishment at how cheap they were :bandit:
 
Plenty of great roads around where I live. It sounds like a London issue.

MC
 

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