New to 911

[Supersport Mike]

Please don't tar all Gen 1s with the same brush ,its only a few of the early ones with the smaller IMS bearing had the problems and a lot of them replaced as piece of mind fixes As already said the 06 onwards had the larger bearing fitted and 25k you will get a nice one ,just make sure its got history and service records which is very important the right oil etc

The 997 is the best car out there ..............and will go up in value at some point

Happy hunting

Nobody was dissing them over the IMS bearing. Its bore scoring that's the issue and to come out with a comment like that is misleading for someone in search of one.

Blimey this forum takes no prisoners I was only try to help

 

[Supersport Mike]

Please don't tar all Gen 1s with the same brush ,its only a few of the early ones with the smaller IMS bearing had the problems and a lot of them replaced as piece of mind fixes As already said the 06 onwards had the larger bearing fitted and 25k you will get a nice one ,just make sure its got history and service records which is very important the right oil etc

The 997 is the best car out there ..............and will go up in value at some point

Happy hunting

Nobody was dissing them over the IMS bearing. Its bore scoring that's the issue and to come out with a comment like that is misleading for someone in search of one.

Blimey this forum takes no prisoners I was only trying to help

 

[Phil 997]

Please don't tar all Gen 1s with the same brush ,its only a few of the early ones with the smaller IMS bearing had the problems and a lot of them replaced as piece of mind fixes As already said the 06 onwards had the larger bearing fitted and 25k you will get a nice one ,just make sure its got history and service records which is very important the right oil etc

The 997 is the best car out there ..............and will go up in value at some point

Happy hunting

Nobody was dissing them over the IMS bearing. Its bore scoring that's the issue and to come out with a comment like that is misleading for someone in search of one.

Blimey this forum takes no prisoners I was only try to help

:floor: :floor: Mike , When discussing the dreaded Borescore and IMS as its quite an emotive subject for some the threads can get quite emotional . this particular thread to this point has been quite informative and fair but there there are two clear camps on the borescore issue theres the "it will happen to all cars eventually "camp and theres the " currently the est is 5% to 8% of cars it will go up as they get older but will always be within an acceptable level given the age and miles of these cars. " camp . which will turn out to be right only time will tell but as I said further up . as the gen1 is at the bottom of the depreciation curve they represent excellent value for money and massive fun to drive and should it need rebuilding during an persons ownership you shouldn't lose anymore in the cast of rebuilding as you would lose in depreciation of pretty much any other marque. but it is important that new owners are aware that theres a chance it might happen and have the means to fix it if it does . I do hope that everyone that decides to buy a 15 yr old 911 is aware that its going to require some money spent during your ownership . Some may be extremely lucky as I was with my 997.1 and own it for 4.5 years drive 50k miles selling it on 89k miles and have had it only cost around 1k pa to maintain .others with be unlucky as was I with my 997.2 and have needed an engine rebuild and gearbox rebuild , clutch flywheel and coolant pipes circa cost 26k all within the first 18 months of ownership. but I still smile knowing that I have owned and enjoyed 911s for 7 years and it has not cost me any more than it would have cost to play golf for 7 years and even better I haven't had to actually play golf :floor: :floor: or in another way ad I brought a 35k BMW 7 years ago and driven 75k miles in it , it would now be worth 5k having cost me the same as running the 997s .So 911 fun for BMW money now that makes me smile :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[me&my997]

Well I was going to post a long old waffle but TBH the car Alex linked to would be the one to buy ,if its a full all 6 rebuild. Whats surprising is a well specced 4S with a Harlech at under 25k I would have expected it to be 30k . anyway incase the OP doesn't buy that one heres my thoughts

get a car with the newer IMS engine numbers are avail but rule of thumb after march 06 all had the new better IMS.

the 3.6 engine is a stronger unit that the 3.8 and suffers less with scoring

manuals are less prone to score than tips due to the default second gear pull away that adds strain to the engine.

or buy a car in the teens that you can drive and enjoy knowing that should it need a rebuild it will be worth most of the rebuild cost after.

buy personal view is the 997.1 is the optimum 911 for these reasons
its a more linear drivers car than newer models .
the 996 is even more linear a drivers car but has marmite looks and a more dated interior
the 997.1 is at the bottom of the depreciation curve so represents the best 911 value for money .
yes they may well in time all need rebuilds but at that point in age or miles almost every marque will ned the same .
we will eventually look at the 997.1 not as a bomb waiting to go off but with the same eyes as the air-cooled owners who just get on and repair as needed without moaning across the internet (part of the issue with the 997.1 is its become an affordable 911 and guys on tight budgets are buying them without considering what it cost to run a thoroughbred iconic sports car, then moaning when they start to get some bills they didn't get with their FORD FOCUS .)
the other and for me most important thing about a 25k 997.1 is you can drive it enjoy it and its not cost you so much all your worried about it adding miles and causing depreciation . its a car you car drive the wheels off with a huge grin and when you sell it it won't have cost you as much to own as you would have lost in depreciation had you brought a BMW or Merc etc. :thumb: :thumb:

ps honestly this is me replying not with a long old waffle :floor: :floor: :floor:

More of this waffle should be posted on these type of threads , its quite easy to be nonchalant about the issues all 911s can have simply because you are used to them but i would assume first time flat 6 buyers come to the forum for a knowledgeable , balanced approach to the cars & to their potential issues .
Some good info offered up there for anyone interested

 

[Jackson]

More of this waffle should be posted on these type of threads , its quite easy to be nonchalant about the issues all 911s can have simply because you are used to them but i would assume first time flat 6 buyers come to the forum for a knowledgeable , balanced approach to the cars & to their potential issues .
Some good info offered up there for anyone interested[/quote]


:thumb: Graciously accepted and stored. It all adds to the knowledge gathering!

 

[oldgit st]

I have recently gone through the whole buying a 997.1 ordeal and have emerged through the other side intact.

I can portray my experience and findings if you like, This is fact because it's actually happened and I'm not sat here chewing my finger nails to the bone anticipating sudden engine failure,

I bought. C4S, the dreaded 3.8 ! with factory Aero body kit, quite how this happened is the only anomaly in the whole saga as I didn't look at 1 until this popped up.

It's a manual.... ✅
NO Sun Roof......✅
NO rear wiper.....✅

They were the only criteria, Oh it had to 4S and grey,

Mine is GT Silver, I didn't see that coming, it's got over £20K of factory options specced, most of which I hadn't even anticipated. Low miles FULL OPC history PLUS all coolant hose and clamps replaced, exhaust fasteners replaced, new disks and pads and 4 new tyres, new clutch 4K miles ago all under warranty !

Adaptive sports seats, factory short shift, sports steering wheel, extended leather, Bose, top tint wind screen, PSE, nav, 6 disc changer,

I took one look at the car and thought how much would it cost to add all that together verses an engine re build ?

So I bought it !

The oil has been changed EVERY 3 months irrespective of whether it's been driven, documented by photo's. Receipts, It's immaculate.

Bore scopes NO VISIBLE SIGN !

My mate bought one 5 years ago with scoring and had 5K knocked off the price ! He's changed his oil fastidiously and it's the same engine without a re build which he was assured it needed ASAP ?

Like others have said, keep your eyes open and don't buy the first one you see, I looked at some with Hartech engine re builds, what you couldn't see under engine lid was great, what you could see was rough, in some instances shoddy, in need of re upholstering and de fumigating, although for some an engine re build is the emperors new clothes and the most important thing when they're trying to sell you their car what you have to look at is WHY the engine failed in the first place, and looking at the state of some examples I saw you can see why engine oil or coolant levels might not have been a priority!

I'd rather take a gleaming example that's been cherished in fact cosseted, and if or when it goes pop spend out on an engine re build.

I paid under what mine was advertised at by a few grand knowing that they weren't selling and I had cash ! It was a tad over what I'd set my limit at but sometimes you just have pay up for something if you want it, plus finding another with all the bits this has wouldn't be easy.

The bottom line is, trust your instinct, get an inspection if it eases your mind, but don't walk away from a gleaming beauty just because it hasn't had an engine re build, that can be factored into the negotiating !

Good luck,

couldn't agree more with this !
I did exactly the same, 2 owner late 2006 c4s cab, 19500k miles and looked like it was brand new.
Paint all original, garaged all its life full opc service file, every single receipt down to even water washer refills ....
I looked at 5 examples ranging from cheap / mid range / and what I ended up with.
The 5 previous ones I looked at went from obviously badly maintained/looked after to general okay to pristine.
The looking and driving of them was more valuable to me than anyone could type on a keyboard.
YES, I paid £4.5k more than a higher mileage well maintained one, and yes IF I have to pay £10k on a engine rebuild further down the line then so be it, ANY car ANY time has the ability to kindly lay in your lap a large bill ! this includes 997.2s and being honest 997.2s are wonderful but they cost more than £10k more to start with.....usually,...
I love my car (as most owners on here probably do) and finding one that has been absolutely cherished in my book is worth every penny, and before someone says these cars need to be driven and garage queens end up with problems, that's an opinion your entitled too.
As for IMS and borescoring issues, it is real but blown way out of proportion in my and repeat my opinion.
The resource on here was very valuable to me, and taking advice from people here I did get PPI's done on two of the cars and yes one of them was a pup.
I would say buy solely on condition and a PPI and negate maybe one or two options to get the right one.
The only problem I had was finding owners willing to take the cars to an independent garage to have the borescope done...most will just say no.
Personally, if I was selling one of these (and if indeed I ever do so) I would have a boroscope test done and show the result to potential buyers....

Just my opinion from a relatively new owner....

Enjoy what ever you end up with .

 

[oldgit st]

I have recently gone through the whole buying a 997.1 ordeal and have emerged through the other side intact.

I can portray my experience and findings if you like, This is fact because it's actually happened and I'm not sat here chewing my finger nails to the bone anticipating sudden engine failure,

I bought. C4S, the dreaded 3.8 ! with factory Aero body kit, quite how this happened is the only anomaly in the whole saga as I didn't look at 1 until this popped up.

It's a manual.... ✅
NO Sun Roof......✅
NO rear wiper.....✅

They were the only criteria, Oh it had to 4S and grey,

Mine is GT Silver, I didn't see that coming, it's got over £20K of factory options specced, most of which I hadn't even anticipated. Low miles FULL OPC history PLUS all coolant hose and clamps replaced, exhaust fasteners replaced, new disks and pads and 4 new tyres, new clutch 4K miles ago all under warranty !

Adaptive sports seats, factory short shift, sports steering wheel, extended leather, Bose, top tint wind screen, PSE, nav, 6 disc changer,

I took one look at the car and thought how much would it cost to add all that together verses an engine re build ?

So I bought it !

The oil has been changed EVERY 3 months irrespective of whether it's been driven, documented by photo's. Receipts, It's immaculate.

Bore scopes NO VISIBLE SIGN !

My mate bought one 5 years ago with scoring and had 5K knocked off the price ! He's changed his oil fastidiously and it's the same engine without a re build which he was assured it needed ASAP ?

Like others have said, keep your eyes open and don't buy the first one you see, I looked at some with Hartech engine re builds, what you couldn't see under engine lid was great, what you could see was rough, in some instances shoddy, in need of re upholstering and de fumigating, although for some an engine re build is the emperors new clothes and the most important thing when they're trying to sell you their car what you have to look at is WHY the engine failed in the first place, and looking at the state of some examples I saw you can see why engine oil or coolant levels might not have been a priority!

I'd rather take a gleaming example that's been cherished in fact cosseted, and if or when it goes pop spend out on an engine re build.

I paid under what mine was advertised at by a few grand knowing that they weren't selling and I had cash ! It was a tad over what I'd set my limit at but sometimes you just have pay up for something if you want it, plus finding another with all the bits this has wouldn't be easy.

The bottom line is, trust your instinct, get an inspection if it eases your mind, but don't walk away from a gleaming beauty just because it hasn't had an engine re build, that can be factored into the negotiating !

Good luck,

couldn't agree more with this !
I did exactly the same, 2 owner late 2006 c4s cab, 19500k miles and looked like it was brand new.
Paint all original, garaged all its life full opc service file, every single receipt down to even water washer refills ....
I looked at 5 examples ranging from cheap / mid range / and what I ended up with.
The 5 previous ones I looked at went from obviously badly maintained/looked after to general okay to pristine.
The looking and driving of them was more valuable to me than anyone could type on a keyboard.
YES, I paid £4.5k more than a higher mileage well maintained one, and yes IF I have to pay £10k on a engine rebuild further down the line then so be it, ANY car ANY time has the ability to kindly lay in your lap a large bill ! this includes 997.2s and being honest 997.2s are wonderful but they cost more than £10k more to start with.....usually,...
I love my car (as most owners on here probably do) and finding one that has been absolutely cherished in my book is worth every penny, and before someone says these cars need to be driven and garage queens end up with problems, that's an opinion your entitled too.
As for IMS and borescoring issues, it is real but blown way out of proportion in my and repeat my opinion.
The resource on here was very valuable to me, and taking advice from people here I did get PPI's done on two of the cars and yes one of them was a pup.
I would say buy solely on condition and a PPI and negate maybe one or two options to get the right one.
The only problem I had was finding owners willing to take the cars to an independent garage to have the borescope done...most will just say no.
Personally, if I was selling one of these (and if indeed I ever do so) I would have a boroscope test done and show the result to potential buyers....

Just my opinion from a relatively new owner....

Enjoy what ever you end up with .

 

[C11BRA]

Brilliant thread.

If it helps. I've just moved into a 75k miles 2006 997.1 3.6 manual (later engine but lower road tax) from a 1998 996 3.4 manual.

Online I found 2 cars I liked. Both would do the deal I wanted. But one was the 3.8 with higher mileage & sketchy history.

I should have looked at both cars. And as an ex-tech I really should have.

But. I only looked at the 3.6. The previous 2 owners only used the car in the dry. Seriously. One look underneath with a torch & this looked plausible. Even with 75k the interior was incredible. History stacked up. Car felt great. Paintwork & panels looked good. HPI checked out. It was a done deal. You just know when it's right.

Absolutely gobsmacked by the car. Feels as fantastically analogue as the 996 but just so much more special to own, look at & drive (imo).

If you can get yourself to a local club meet, then find a 997 owner you can learn loads over a coffee.

Can't wait for the weekend.

 

[me&my997]

More of this waffle should be posted on these type of threads , its quite easy to be nonchalant about the issues all 911s can have simply because you are used to them but i would assume first time flat 6 buyers come to the forum for a knowledgeable , balanced approach to the cars & to their potential issues .
Some good info offered up there for anyone interested

:thumb: Graciously accepted and stored. It all adds to the knowledge gathering![/quote]

Not sure whereabouts Lancs you are but always happy to have a meet-brew-chat & you can happily have a peek around my manual 06 C4 , just listening to them start , listening to them tickover could be useful to you in your search , they all sound similar but they don't all sound the same .
Mine was the 4th example i was interested in before making the purchase , the other 3 may well have been "ok" but this one just stood out as the best option for me .

 

[Jackson]

More of this waffle should be posted on these type of threads , its quite easy to be nonchalant about the issues all 911s can have simply because you are used to them but i would assume first time flat 6 buyers come to the forum for a knowledgeable , balanced approach to the cars & to their potential issues .
Some good info offered up there for anyone interested

:thumb: Graciously accepted and stored. It all adds to the knowledge gathering!

Not sure whereabouts Lancs you are but always happy to have a meet-brew-chat & you can happily have a peek around my manual 06 C4 , just listening to them start , listening to them tickover could be useful to you in your search , they all sound similar but they don't all sound the same .
Mine was the 4th example i was interested in before making the purchase , the other 3 may well have been "ok" but this one just stood out as the best option for me .[/quote]


You're a gentleman - that would be great! I'm sure there will be 'Porsche meet ups' around the NW too from which I could garner intel.

 

[Alex]

You're quite welcome to join us over near Alderly Edge. I drive over from nr Blackburn once a month and there's usually a dood selection of 964/996/997/991 to poke round.

 

[Jackson]

Sounds fab! Many thanks Alex :thumb:

Is that with PCGB - North West?

I have made myself a member of PCGB to keep the spectrum of intel broad and varied :thumbs:

 

[Alex]

No, its 911uk members, although not strictly if anyone wants to attend. Just a bunch of blokes talking bloke stuff and mooching around cars.

 

[Jackson]

Cool. I'll keep an eye on the Meets & Events section and hopefully catch you there :thumb:

 

[me&my997]

More of this waffle should be posted on these type of threads , its quite easy to be nonchalant about the issues all 911s can have simply because you are used to them but i would assume first time flat 6 buyers come to the forum for a knowledgeable , balanced approach to the cars & to their potential issues .
Some good info offered up there for anyone interested

:thumb: Graciously accepted and stored. It all adds to the knowledge gathering!

Not sure whereabouts Lancs you are but always happy to have a meet-brew-chat & you can happily have a peek around my manual 06 C4 , just listening to them start , listening to them tickover could be useful to you in your search , they all sound similar but they don't all sound the same .
Mine was the 4th example i was interested in before making the purchase , the other 3 may well have been "ok" but this one just stood out as the best option for me .

You're a gentleman - that would be great! I'm sure there will be 'Porsche meet ups' around the NW too from which I could garner intel.[/quote]

Currently in France until next Friday , then i'm around or out in the car most weekends so easy enough to sort a brew meet & natter .
Drop me a PM with your mob number :thumb: