Leggy C4 cab...when is enough enough?

[deckster]

I've never been one for working on cars myself - I don't have the skills, the tools, the time, or the inclination. I'm also the kind of person that does whatever the garage says needs doing, to an extent regardless of cost. The car itself is largely maintained by Northway and has always had the same tech work on it, who I trust implicitly.

However this does mean that in my five years and 35,000 miles of 996 ownership, I've spent £42k (including purchase price, not including Insurance & fuel) on maintaining the car. "The car" being a C4 cab with 173,000 miles on the clock. Note this doesn't include any of the really big-ticket items e.g. engine rebuild, full suspension refresh, gearbox refurb etc. etc. but does address a number of the more common failure points - new clutch, IMS, exhaust, brake pipes, A/C pipes & condensers as well as some unexpected ones like the front diff needing a rebuild & a blocked drain hole shorting out the entire security system.

Fast forward to today, and I am staring at yet another sizable bill, this time being £3k for a new steering rack & associated pipes, pump etc. after it decided to dump the PAS fluid all over the M4 a few weeks back. Factor in the service and inevitable additional work in a couple of months time and I'll be in the hole for getting on £50k on a car which is probably worth, on a good day, £10k.

So. This is more of a whinge than anything else - but where do I stop? I can't help but notice that a nice F-type that's 15 years newer would be not much more than £30k and, probably, over the next 5 years will cost considerably less than the 996 to keep on the road, considering that it's likely to need some Hartech magic in the not too distant future.

My wife already despairs of me but honestly...is there any universe in which it's remotely sensible to sink 60-70k into a 996?

 

[T8]

A really interesting post and a dilemma that I suspect that many of us have had at some time in car ownership.

My first time was in 1983 when I finally decided that I couldn't carry on spending £££s on my 1850HL Dolomite after 3 years of nightmare ownership. Including the purchase price it had cost me over £4k and I sold it for £460. A year later it was pushed into an auction and sold for £25.

In your case I'd be asking myself how much fun I'm still getting out of the car and balance that amount of smiles vs the likely cost going forward. The money you've spent is spent and will never be recouped so isn't relevant now - other than the items purchased should keep the car going longer.

The biggie may never happen. If it does that would probably be the time to cut your losses. If you feel it's worth £10k now you'd get a lot of that back if you break it for spares.

I personally wouldn't spend the £3k+ it needs now and then sell it straight away. I'd want to recoup some of that in driving the car for a while longer - even if I did have to do it with my fingers-crossed.

Good Luck in whatever you decide. :thumb:

 

[911munKy]

Only if it's a GT3 or you are building an MC type special.

Personally I've spent £7700 over 6 years (inc shocks/springs etc & exhaust) on my £11,000 C2 which I think is a lot but it's a Porsche so will cost more than other cars (although probably no depreciation), I've done ~80% of the spannering myself.

If you love the car then why not but to me the maths doesn't add up.

 

[cvega]

I'm kind of in the same place, I've spent over 10k in the last 3 years (and covered less than 5k miles), there's always a point when you have to considering cutting your losses... My leggy 996 is now owing me 23k, so i'm nowhere near your levels but sometimes I think that I should've bought myself a GT86 like i was planning to... It's not like I can exploit the 996's power and handling abilities in daily driving.. the 23k includes purchase price, and a lot of big ticket items have been addressed - ims, rms, clutch, exhaust, rads, brakes, etc - but not the biggest ones, like engine and gearbox rebuild..
it's a tough one, this.

 

[MisterCorn]

I am increasingly coming to the opinion that owning a car like this outside of a proper factory warranty needs to be somebody with very keep pockets who doesn't have to worry about the costs, or somebody who is able to do the work themselves. Even so, that sounds pretty expensive to me for the jobs required.

MC

 

[cvega]

I am increasingly coming to the opinion that owning a car like this outside of a proper factory warranty needs to be somebody with very keep pockets who doesn't have to worry about the costs, or somebody who is able to do the work themselves. Even so, that sounds pretty expensive to me for the jobs required.

MC

Yep, nail, head. I'm neither so the future of the 996 hangs in the balance.

 

[EG-C4]

Re the steering rack - when mine had to be done, the original price for the rack was well over £1k for the part. But it's made by ZF and you can get factory re-conditioned ones from Eurocar (and no doubt elsewhere) for an absolute fraction of the 'new' price - mine was under £300 a couple of years ago.

My pipes ended up being vastly more than the rack itself.

Doesn't solve your total spend dilemma I realise, but every little helps.

 

[MisterCorn]

The pipes are expensive, I have an almost new set available which are from a 2001 C4, no idea if they are the same or not. I removed then when I converted to electric power steering.

MC

 

[esendia]

The main problem is it's a Porsche work at any place is always at a premium, unless of course you are willing to work on it yoursef. I've replaced my starter, done servicing, water pump, brakes, steering rack, belts ect and in 3 years parts have only cost my around £1.5K for maintaintence and reapir. The 996 falls in an off place at the moment though, it costs Porsche prices to maintain and if it were a Gen older or newer a 993 or 997 then people probably would not question the amount you have spent so far on maintence but the 996 falls into the cheapest 911 at present so you have to make the choice. Personally I think the modern F-type will never be as fun or analogue to drive if it were me, but also I would never have bought my 996 if I couldn't work on it myself because I know I can't afford the garage bills, but it depends what you want from the car, the other consideration is you never know what will happen price wise you may find if 996's become the new classic it may become quite costly to get one again if you decide in the future.

 

[beresd]

Oooofff....and something I ponder a lot so feel your pain.


I would say it's 'enough'...

(I bought for 10.5k and was instantly hit with 2.5k bill, told another 4k was coming (since come!) and 3.5k Insurance (first car). 1.3k on bodywork and 1k on alloy refurb in the 6 years I have had it. About another 2.5k on what I plan to do, should I offload and get a new one? but I'll only have to sort that out too.. It seems a common question)

 

[Jay Man]

I've never been one for working on cars myself - I don't have the skills, the tools, the time, or the inclination. I'm also the kind of person that does whatever the garage says needs doing, to an extent regardless of cost. The car itself is largely maintained by Northway and has always had the same tech work on it, who I trust implicitly.

However this does mean that in my five years and 35,000 miles of 996 ownership, I've spent £42k (including purchase price, not including Insurance & fuel) on maintaining the car. "The car" being a C4 cab with 173,000 miles on the clock. Note this doesn't include any of the really big-ticket items e.g. engine rebuild, full suspension refresh, gearbox refurb etc. etc. but does address a number of the more common failure points - new clutch, IMS, exhaust, brake pipes, A/C pipes & condensers as well as some unexpected ones like the front diff needing a rebuild & a blocked drain hole shorting out the entire security system.

Fast forward to today, and I am staring at yet another sizable bill, this time being £3k for a new steering rack & associated pipes, pump etc. after it decided to dump the PAS fluid all over the M4 a few weeks back. Factor in the service and inevitable additional work in a couple of months time and I'll be in the hole for getting on £50k on a car which is probably worth, on a good day, £10k.

So. This is more of a whinge than anything else - but where do I stop? I can't help but notice that a nice F-type that's 15 years newer would be not much more than £30k and, probably, over the next 5 years will cost considerably less than the 996 to keep on the road, considering that it's likely to need some Hartech magic in the not too distant future.

My wife already despairs of me but honestly...is there any universe in which it's remotely sensible to sink 60-70k into a 996?

Sorry its cost so much to do so few miles.

£3k sounds an awful lot to fix the steering. Mine lost fluid on the way back from Le Mans and I drove it back from the eurotunnel to Birmingham with no fluid, groaning away. Both the rack and the pump were fine. the pipes were corroded but they can be replaced/fixed. Total bill was £534.47....maybe you need to find a new mechanic? The pump is also boxster part and there are plenty second hand on ebay.

 

[martin t]

The issue is labour costs.

Having "retired" I decided i wanted a 996 cab and found one to restore. Once again with no previous experience of these cars I got the tool box out and set to work and guess what, it was like any other car to work on. It all bolts together and unlike British classic cars, goes back together as it should.

Sure the electronic side is a head scratcher but there are no electronics on the mechanical parts save the sensors.

As i see it the 996 is at the bottom of the value trough. Whatever you spend will be lost so to mitigate the loss reduce the cost, which in my experience is Labour and new parts. Buy 2nd hand and DIY it really is easy and the satisfaction is 2nd to none.

However the question is how much do you like the car. There is nothing worse than owning a car and looking longingly at others (a bit like wives/other women I suppose).

In summary, you will never recoup your spend on that one but if you really like the car who cares. I particularly like mine and i have hardly driven it this year!!!!

 

[deckster]

Some interesting responses and definitely food for thought. Of course the money spent is spent and without doubt the car is in a whole lot better shape than when I bought it. Which is sort of the dilemma...surely it's better to stick with something I know has a whole heap of work done and should be pretty reliable by now. Except that every time I think nothing else expensive can possibly break, it proves me spectacularly wrong :floor: This is the first time however that I've seriously considered whether it's worth repairing. There's also the not inconsiderable fact that for obvious reasons it's been driven a whole lot less this year than normal which makes the cost-per-mile truly eye-watering.

Specifically on the steering costs - yes we're already using refurbed pump & rack and fingers crossed the bill should go down by £500-odd presuming that the old parts are good enough to be exchanged. As somebody said, the pipes are the pricey bit - they cost as much as the pump & rack combined.

It would as has been said be very much easier if I was competent with spanners, and also had the inclination to do the work myself. Realistically it's mainly the latter as quite frankly I have little enough free time and the thought of spending hours at the weekend lying under the car just doesn't appeal. Quite get that this would save me a small fortune every year though.

I'm in the fortunate position where funding the repairs isn't damaging to my lifestyle (or my marriage...much!) so it's purely a head-over-heart thing. Currently, heart is winning...but I do like the look of the Jag

 

[infrasilver]

I'm in the same boat in the money spent, and I don't get labour charges as I do everything myself, I'm on my 3rd (and a bit) engine rebuild, been through a few gearboxes and changed the brakes numerous times, plus suspension and many, many other things that have needed (or not needed) doing. The car is as a part of me, as anything I have ever owned as I have put so much of my time into it and I think if I had to pay labour charges it would not be viable. It still eventually will need paint and that is another big expense that is due at some point in the future.

One reason I do most of my own work is due to getting ripped off (or attempted at least) by garages over the years, each time I go somewhere to get work done I have been told BS by someone who thinks I don't know about cars, which in one way is comical but also highlights to me that many people get talked into much more work than they need?

I do think that you are having your pants pulled down on a regular basis by agreeing on everything that is suggested being done and you could have saved many ££££'s on using a regular garage for work that a specialist doesn't need to do, they are normal cars and very easy to work on, so most jobs can be done by a regular garage, also many things that get suggested don't actually need doing.

You agree there is no value in the car so why do you need to get invoices from a Porsche specialist just get it fixed when it needs fixing?

Power steering pipe needs doing and I understand that doing the other pipes may be beneficial but a new steering rack and £3000 for the job, I'm not so sure??

 

[Zingari]

Place in Bristol does recond steering racks for a very good price - HERE for £250. Ideally price the parts yourself and then decide how much the labour will be. It's not a tecnical job unique to a Porsche specialist.