Considerations: C4 vs C2 Tip --[UPDATE: Page 3]

[ch3tman]

Hi all,

I'm hoping to be in the market for a 993 in 2014. However, I find myself looking at both the C4 - my 'first choice' - and also the C2 Tip. These are quite varying models of course and yet I am constantly looking at the Tip.

The Tip:
A lot of the content available on this forum (and Rennlist) regarding the Tip consist of people talking them down; having 'only' 4 cogs, not offering the full driving or interactive experience, etc. What seems to appeal is the fact that, because I intend to the own the car for a very long time, added to the fact that I live West of London and therefore often in traffic, it could be well suited. But would I be living a small part of the 'true' 993 experience? Tips seemed to be frowned upon amongst owners and (probably) as a result tend to fall into the cheaper end of the market! Also, the 2WD aspect is also a thought at the back of my mind, as I will come on to...

The C4:
As a fan of the NB, I'd much prefer C4 predominantly because of the added security the AWD brings. Our roads are often wet and greasy, and considering the 993 would serve as frequent/daily driver, I'd definitely feel more comfortable in the C4. However, given where the engine is placed and weight applied on the rear wheels, I do wonder how much added benefit a C4 actually brings over a C2. On paper, I imagine its quite difficult to break traction? I currently have a front-mid-RWD car and know too well how pure RWDs struggle in wet or icy conditions.



If anyone is able to chime in with opinions of each - perhaps you've considered or driven, or owned both and able to compare - that would be much appreciated.
Also, those who have owned both the C2 and C4, and can comment on the amount of extra traction available would be appreciated. Driving both (at some point, hopefully) will also prove to be decisive I'm sure, though its always good to have opinions and thoughts prior to that.

Above all, I've read time and time again that buying on condition is the most important factor. However, deciding between Manual and Tip obviously needs to happen and if I can then decide between 2WD and 4WD - or at least appreciate the pros/cons of each better - great.

Thanks in advance :thumb:

EDIT: [UPDATE: Page 3]

 

[harjmatha]

Hello Ch3tman

I own a 993 Tip AND live in London. My friend has a 993 coupe and I have driven that around quite a lot. For driving in London, in my opinion, there really is no substitute for the tiptronic. I don't know where, to the west of london, you live but I would wager there is still a large amount of traffic at any given time and it can get very tiring driving a manual.

We have both driven from NE London to Bisley (near Camberley), cutting straight through the centre of London and I emerge out of the car in a far better state than my friend from his manual.

I picked up my car on the 17th January 2013 from Manchester, the day the snows fell and everything came to a grinding halt. I had my teenage daughter with me, driving down the M6 in a complete blizzard and felt totally safe in the car. It braked well and behaved impeccably, better than my 535D did the day after on salted B roads.

As for the driving experience, this is very subjective. I'm an average safe driver and wanted the car for the sake of having the car, not just the pure driving experience. When you are in the car, you are driving a Porsche 993...........period! If however, you are a skilled driver, then the manual may pay dividends, but this has to be balanced off against the fact that you intend to use it in a heavily built up area.

I too thought about which to get, a tiptronic or manual, but in the end I went for the tip. It suited my driving style, my physical build and where I will use it 99% of the time.

This may be a point of conjecture, but I believe I get the true Porsche experience from my Tiptronic.

Finally, don't be swayed by others opinions, do what you feel is right for you.

 

[orangecurry]

Welcome to 911uk :bye:

I'll just gift you a thread on the AWD system.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforu...lease-explain-how-the-4wd-system-works-2.html

 

[ch3tman]

Hi harjmatha,

Thanks for the response, appreciate your insight. The key part for me, below, addresses my concerns of C2 performance in adverse weather conditions:

I picked up my car on the 17th January 2013 from Manchester, the day the snows fell and everything came to a grinding halt. I had my teenage daughter with me, driving down the M6 in a complete blizzard and felt totally safe in the car. It braked well and behaved impeccably, better than my 535D did the day after on salted B roads.

This is really good (and positively surprising) to read. Did you experience any loss of traction at all? Any fishtailing perhaps?
If your 993 coped so well in the snow, presumably you have no issues in rain? On roundabouts, or pulling sharply out of t-junctions in wet conditions, etc.?

I too thought about which to get, a tiptronic or manual, but in the end I went for the tip. It suited my driving style, my physical build and where I will use it 99% of the time.

This may be a point of conjecture, but I believe I get the true Porsche experience from my Tiptronic.

You seem really content with your choice which is very pleasing to see! :yes:


EDIT: Thanks orangecurry, will give that thread a read.

 

[sday12]

One has the wrong gearbox, and one has the wrong drive configuration.

HTH

 

[ch3tman]

One has the wrong gearbox, and one has the wrong drive configuration.

HTH

That was pretty much the very first response I was expecting, thanks sday12 .

 

[Zuffenhausen :O)]

Weight distribution is different on the C4, however I think if you're that worried about traction in inclement weather perhaps a 911 isnt the best choice of car, perhaps a cayenne might be a better option for you.

 

[ch3tman]

Hi Zuffenhausen,

Weight distribution is different on the C4, however I think if you're that worried about traction in inclement weather perhaps a 911 isnt the best choice of car, perhaps a cayenne might be a better option for you.

Regardless of whether your comment is made in jest uh:... Whilst I am 'concerned' about performance in poor weather between the C2 and C4, I'm also accustomed to driving a car that is quite tail happy in all conditions (my current S2000, near 50:50 weight distribution on a front/mid engine RWD layout) and manage to get on just fine (...apart from in snow).

I wouldn't say its a case of whether the Cayenne is suitable or not, or whether I am 'that worried'.... its a case of wanting to better understand the behaviour and dynamics of models across the 993 model line, from those who are fortunate enough to own them.

 

[orangecurry]

Millions of words have been written on the subject of 911 'handling', and all of them are subjective.

I strongly advise you to get a long drive in one, and as many short drives as possible in the different variants.

In most (well designed) cars where the engine is separated from the driven wheels, everything seems to 'happen' around the gearstick, In a 993 everything 'happens' around the engine. You get better traction (esp in ice) over the BMW Honda, but the steering control is less with the steering and more with the engine...... erm.....

See? I drive one beyond the limits of grip (on a circuit) and I can't put 'it' into words.

Drive one. Get 'it' or not.

Final critical piece of advice - if you don't get on with a 993, which is the version that you can sell-on instantly at any time of year?

 

[Zuffenhausen :O)]

I wouldn't say its a case of whether the Cayenne is suitable or not, or whether I am 'that worried'.... its a case of wanting to better understand the behaviour and dynamics of models across the 993 model line, from those who are fortunate enough to own them.

Perhaps a publication written by Tiff Needel be a better place to source the info you need, and if you're content with the 'tail happy S2000', then why the..............

"I'd much prefer C4 predominantly because of the added security the AWD brings. Our roads are often wet and greasy, and considering the 993 would serve as frequent/daily driver, I'd definitely feel more comfortable in the C4"

C4's are apparently only available to the dark side with a manual gearbox, hope that helps. :thumb:

 

[decgraham]

Hi,

My first 911 was a 964 C4 Targa. The car was amazing, it stuck to the road like s**t to a blanket. The faster I drove it the more it seemed to stick, it was as if the car just spread its self wider and wider and I was driving on a railway track. The split between the drives was 70% on the back and 30% on the front (I think 69 / 31 to be precise) not sure if the 993 C4 is the same but probably is? So handling will be great.

After the 964 C4, I bought the 993 C2 Cabriolet TipS. I can honestly say that I have had as much fun in it as I did in the 964 C4. When I feel lazy I just stick it in drive, when I want some fun I use the buttons and drive it to the line in each gear, it isn't slow! It performs beautifully and the growl, even with standard boxes and CAT (with the top down) is music to my ears.

As has been said it is down to the individual, for me my car ticks all my boxes and my good friend from Porsche told my misses that she would always be safe in it, she would never out drive it and it would take care of her, he has been right on every count.

Good luck with your choice.

ATB

 

[Owl]

Hi Ch3tman

I sold our S2000 to buy the Porsche and whilst I found the Honda brilliant in the dry, it was a bit twitchy on occasion in the wet and quite dicey in the snow.

I drive the C4 in all weathers and can honestly say I have never had a 'moment' in the 10 months of ownership.

If you can manage the S2000 I really don't think you'll have a problem with the 993 (2 or 4).

Can't help on the tip/manual debate I'm afraid other than to say that it had to be a manual for me.

Good luck. :thumb:

 

[GT4]

C4

 

[orangecurry]

Hi,

My first 911 was a 964 C4 Targa. The car was amazing, it stuck to the road like s**t to a blanket. The faster I drove it the more it seemed to stick, it was as if the car just spread its self wider and wider and I was driving on a railway track. The split between the drives was 70% on the back and 30% on the front (I think 69 / 31 to be precise) not sure if the 993 C4 is the same but probably is? So handling will be great.

No - the 964 is a proper mechanical 4wd system - the 993 uses a VC to distribute power to the front after grip has been lost at the rear. Key word is 'after'. :thumb:

 

[Chris993C2]

the 993 uses a VC to distribute power to the front after grip has been lost at the rear. Key word is 'after'. :thumb:

In fairness, the C4 shifts torque to the front pretty quickly when it starts to get exciting.

It also has a very heavy bias towards the rear under "normal" conditions - from memory it's something like a 95/5 torque split, whereas a 964 C4 is more like 60/40.

And don't forget that a 993 C4 also (often) gets you ABD, which acts as traction/launch control...