cheapo ebay manfiolds

[Slutters]

Not as much proffit :dont know:

I doubt it, they cost that direct from K Line.

Ah......9E......who yank ims bearings out engines in situ and replace with those rubbish LN ones :?:

This whole debate comes down to quality i am afraid, you have put a cheap rubbish "shiny" manifold which has most likely been TIG welded over the top of MIG Weld's on your car because you didn't want to buy a proper handmade manifold. You get what you pay for in life i am afraid.

Not sure on 9E's methods but at the end of the day they are making some of the fastest Porsche's out there, and they are not doing that by using Chinese rubbish.

 

[NineExcellence]

Just because they fit your car and have not cracked does not mean they are any good, and more than likely flow worse than stock...

Do you have one bit of credible evidence to back up anything you've stated?

You don't see 9E one of the best tuners in Europe using Chinese manifolds do you? Why?

So none then.

Ah......9E......who yank ims bearings out engines in situ and replace with those rubbish LN ones :?:

Get your facts right Alex before you write

http://www.nineexcellence.com/service/ims-bearing.html

And yes when the existing bearing has showing issues we have replaced in Situ and never had a failure - one has 35000 miles on it.

Ken

 

[Alex]

What facts did I get wrong Ken?

 

[Alex]

Not as much proffit :dont know:

I doubt it, they cost that direct from K Line.

Ah......9E......who yank ims bearings out engines in situ and replace with those rubbish LN ones :?:

This whole debate comes down to quality i am afraid, you have put a cheap rubbish "shiny" manifold which has most likely been TIG welded over the top of MIG Weld's on your car because you didn't want to buy a proper handmade manifold. You get what you pay for in life i am afraid.

Not sure on 9E's methods but at the end of the day they are making some of the fastest Porsche's out there, and they are not doing that by using Chinese rubbish.

So still no credible evidence on the manifolds being crap.

 

[Slutters]

So still no credible evidence on the manifolds being crap.

You don't see 9E one of the best tuners in Europe using Chinese manifolds do you? Why?

 

[Alex]

Is that supposed to be credible evidence?

 

[Slutters]

Is that supposed to be credible evidence?

Let's flip this around, why don't you provide some credible evidence that them China specials are even as good as a 18 year old stock manifold? :lol:

Being shiny is not a valid answer...

 

[NineExcellence]

What facts did I get wrong Ken?

I know your view on the ln bearing but you wrote it as if we recommend doing that which is not the case. Have we done it - yes - have they failed - no. I prefer not to do it but lots of customers cannot afford to go down the route of engine build and sometimes you can get lucky that replacing it ( as in the case of the car with 35000 miles since ) which has significant lateral movement resolved the issue to date.

Re manifolds - 99% of the time I am replacing on turbo cars where the heat generation is higher - on a mixture of cheap and expensive manifolds we have suffered with cracks as a result - a frustration. In fact we got so frustrated with it that I ended up taking the stock manifolds and bore them out. When I partnered with Kline they were able to produce manifolds for a turbo based car that didn't crack.

That is not to say that other cheaper solutions will not work but after using four different manufactures to date, Kline has not let me down. On a na car I would think it is not so much of an issue - I have fitted a few Kline manifolds for na cars like gt3s, 996 and 997.

Am I going to recommend Kline over something else - well yes of course but I also have customers whose budget will not stretch to that on na cars and am happy to try alternatives.

Ken

 

[Marky911]

You can't say fairer than that. :thumb:


It's all going off in here.
Let's not end up like Pistonheads where folk would rather argue than have a decent bit of chat.

:fight:

 

[Slutters]

You can't say fairer than that. :thumb:


It's all going off in here.
Let's not end up like Pistonheads where folk would rather argue than have a decent bit of chat.

:fight:

Indeed, would be interested to see what the weight difference is though if Gooey36 get's a chance!
8)

 

[Gooey36]

Look like cheap thin walled rubbish to me

Just out of interest what thickness are the 'expensive" manifolds fabricated in and what material is advertised?

I'll measure/check mine and can confirm their composition - will happily post that up with pics prior to them going on this weekend.

Going by a proper manifold made by K Line, your looking at 4KG each:

http://www.kline-innovation.com/exhaust-collection/porsche/996-2/996-carrera/

Be interesting to see what weight the China one is.

You get what you pay for in my mind, there is a reason the K Line ones at £1000+

I'll weigh the toyosport one I have which would be classed as a cheap manifold and let you know however that doesn't really answer the question in terms of what gauge stainless they use. They state 304 so an 18/8 family of austenitic stainless steels (same as the composition as mine, which I have checked via an industry standard technique) but not the gauge of tube. Think if there's a genuine difference in wall thickness between cheap and expensive then we need to at least know what the baseline expensive/quality gauge is so as to enable a like for like comparison.

Bit of googling seems to put most manufactures at 14-16gauge (1.5-1.9ish mm). Will measure and weigh and add to this thread later this week (although not convinced that mass is a sign of quality!) I would imagine that the cost is in the correct design/R&D and stress modelling in order to produce some tangible gains.

I'm just interested from a factual side rather than the internet he said/she said ding dongs. Had I listened to those, I wouldn't have bought a 996 in the first place as they're ugly and the IMS/Bore score would have gone bang by now!
:thumbs:

 

[Alex]

If my memory serves me well I think they measured up around 1.6mm thick on the wall thickness when I received mine.

Ken - apologies for commenting on the practices of 9e, it was a poor response to the stuck record of slutters - "You don't see 9E one of the best tuners in Europe using Chinese manifolds do you? Why?"

What I really should have said is just because 9e don't use them, doesn't mean they're crap.

He's been commenting for nigh on 4 years now how crap they are, but as yet has failed to respond with any reasonable argument over their quality, other than 'probablys' and 'most likelys' without any facts or evidence.

I bet he hasn't even got a clue where, how or who made these Chinese manifolds.

 

[Alex]

Just been on the Chinese manufacturer's website. Their manifolds are hand made and all welds are TIG welded.

 

[Bluebird911]

Not convinced by this Alex!

Do they mention standards, procedures or coded welders?

I can bend pipes and TIG weld!!

 

[Y2K]

IIRC poppopbangbang tested and fitted them and found them to be good quality.