question ...... but when did cars become fast ?

[Jonathon555]

This may sound a silly question , but when did cars become fast ?

I can remember as a 14 year old in 1988 thumbing through what car magazine reading about 204 bhp cossies dong 144mph & 0-60 mph in 5.8 being considered fast by any standard. I have the top speed of the testarossa and countach imprinted on my brain.

But by modern standards these are not than impressive.

I think back to 1993 when i got my 1985 fiesta xr2 with 96bhp at 19 thinking it was fast ( could barely afford the third party Insurance at the time living in cleveland)& raced anyone who would have a go gte, gti it took on all comers. But in reality these days it could not see off a 2.0 diesel.

But i really dont know when the quantum leap of fast cars happened.

I remember back to the late 1990,s when all the imports from japan arrived for cheap money, suddenly sub 5.0 second 0-60s were affordable with mildly tuned nissan gti-r's , sti scoobies and evo's

But now my wifes golf r , can do 0-60 in 4.6 out of the box. And that is not that fast.

When did it all change ?

 

[Alex]

It's constantly come down every year since the motor car was first launched. The only time in my lifetime when it seemed to stall for a while was when catalytic converters were made compulsory back in 1993. Hot hatches seemed to drop back from around 7.5 seconds to 9.5 seconds. Wasn't soon after that the European car makers got their act together as they were getting annihilated by the Jap rockets.

Every decade my mate and I have drop down a second on the 0-60 bench mark. 90s had to start with 7, 00s had to start with 6, 10s had to start with 5. Now we're in the 20s and sub 5 is the standard.

 

[DRZ911]

Every decade my mate and I have drop down a second on the 0-60 bench mark. 90s had to start with 7, 00s had to start with 6, 10s had to start with 5. Now we're in the 20s and sub 5 is the standard.

:thumb: Alex, perfect way of summarising the movement of performance envelopes over the past 3+ decades.

 

[adamw]

Good post :grin: :thumb:

I also had an XR2 (mk2 - 88E - re-sprayed signal yellow - class) at 18 and loved it! Ins was a nightmare but it felt quick :grin: :worship:

 

[Boba fett]

Had most of the hot stuff since a Cortina 2.0 Ghia X. My first car!!

I think they used to be more fun. More usable performance. I still would love a Capri 2.8 Injection special with its LSD and tail happy rear end today. Back then a Chipped Escort RS Turbo was king, before Cossies came about. A mere 200 bhp!!

Its just got bigger and better, I think the Giant German's have made it happen mostly, a good comparison is the bhp battle between BMW, Merc and Audi, with their M5, AMG and RS6, each model is more than its competition!

And now we land at a time where they are to fast for the road, and to easy to drive fast, sadly fast but pretty numb in fact, and with all the driver aids, short footed handling, its now something your Nan could drive fast.

Then you have the state of the roads, busy, Camera's, sleeping policeman, and do gooders with Dash Cams submitting the evidence, and the pot holes, well they are not good for our 21" rims at speed !! How anyone would want a Supercar that's Super fast, that barly gets to over 27 mph in London is beyond me!!

We will all be going back soon, to the 182 Trophy or RS1600i as these cars are more in keeping with today's roads and in many ways can be more of a hoot with there frankly pathetic horsepower :thumb:

 

[Yellow]

I think the big difference isnt so much the quicker / more interesting end of things, but more where the more run of the mill/average cars sit.

The advent and adoption of turbo diesels from the early 2000's gave a lot of cars quite a bit of torque and punch. The rise of car finance has helped deliver far more relatively new cars on the road with that more modern performance. Our roads arent becoming any bigger either, so most of the time all the cars are much further below their ultimate performance than they might have been.

 

[Alex]

The average car is still sat where it was 30 years ago. Even though they've had a decent increase in power/torpue vs engine size any gains have been consumed by extra weight and improved fuel efficiency. The run of the mill family car (eg. Base model 5-door Golf) is still around 11 seconds to 60 and 115mph top end.

 

[MaxA]

It's an interesting question; but I think the pace came with the shift to turbos (my SAAB was supposed to be faster than a Testarossa), and the really fast stuff came with the later improved turbo technologies and the "gentleman's agreement" cars from Japan, both race and rally cars.

As it happens, I was at the track on Sunday in my other car, a track prepped little hatchback with 1100kg/240hp, so it's fairly punchy on the road, but the prepped later model (turbo) BMWs were coming by on the staright at a very serious rate, as they've got more like 500hp nowadays, and that's basically getting a little scary. :dont know:

 

[IMI A]

Pug 1.9 GTI. Still a pug shape in hedge nr where I put it straight through the corner 30 years ago experiencing lift off oversteer in the wet. Properly fast car murdered a few 911s in it before killing the poor thing.

 

[cableguy]

Another reason why i've turned back the clock in Porsche years.

I owned a breathed on 996GT2 which was silly fast but almost impossible to exploit its boundaries on UK roads. Three Porsches later i'm in a NB 993 Manual Coupe which IMO is the sweet spot... 300bhp in 1300kg, RWD with a manual box. Plenty quick enough through the twisties and dodging pot holes and always makes me grin after an energetic run out.

Had a Capri 2.8i Special when I was 19 and wrote it off due to inexperience with RWD. Bought another and had great fun learning how to drive properly. Unfortunately very few of the "now" generation will ever get to experience the fun we had due to numb modern but safe cars along with the ridiculous amount of traffic and idiots on our roads.

C.

 

[arry]

It's not just the power difference, either. Chassis technology is so much better now than it was 'back then'. Shell rigidity now is like granite versus a wet salad leaf.

That's before we get to the trick differentials and funky front knuckles on FWD cars.

However, for all of the 'improvement' I can't help but feel we've gone so far backwards in terms of feel / fun.

About a month back I was out on a run through the Sussex / Surrey countryside and was enjoying a nice clear bit of lovely technical lane when a base model Yaris pulled out from a side turning and into my path, moving pretty slowly. Merde, I thought, whilst plotting an overtake. There wasn't one on, the lane was too twisty, so I dropped back and awaited an opportunity / intervention of some sort. The guy in the Yaris then got up to speed and proceeded to drive the wheels off the thing. I'm not saying I was struggling to keep with him, but I wouldn't have pushed him any harder without compromising the safety of others - the lane wouldn't allow much more speed without becoming dangerous. He was at the limit of the car and the road's safety. I was at the limit of the road's safety and well within the limits of the car.

It reminded me that you don't need a 400bhp car through England's country roads - you need small, light, fun and a good pair of testes.

 

[L1OFF]

I remember a few years ago trying to keep up with my son's 1994 Mk1 MX5 (1.6) on a very twisty bumpy B road in my new 2005 TVR Sagaris (somewhat embarrassing).

 

[jonttt]

I remember first hitting 100MPH in my fathers Cortina......it must have taken 3 miles to get to that speed and even on a slight curve felt like it was going to fall off the road .........now you can hit 100+ on a slip road and not even think about it :grin:

 

[L1OFF]

I remember first hitting 100MPH in my fathers Cortina......it must have taken 3 miles to get to that speed and even on a slight curve felt like it was going to fall off the road .........now you can hit 100+ on a slip road and not even think about it :grin:

My 1st "Ton" was a 1967 Mk 4 Ford Zodiac with a full length "zebasto" sunroof in 1973 good times.

 

[The return of Marty Wild]

I've seen Pug 205 and 106 GTIs corner at speeds on the public highway that to this day I can scarcely believe.

They were awesome little cars.