Help disaster - UPDATE

[JAD]

I have just had a fantastic driving day with CATDT (more of that later) any way on the drive back home I got stuck in nose to tail traffic. While edging forward a loud metallic rattling / clanking started from the engine. It sounded like a tin can had gut stuck and was rattling around. I looked underneath but no obvious sign of anything and noise had stopped.

Temperature and oil pressure seemed fine, no warning lights and noise had stopped so I proceeded home cautiously. Traffic was heavy all the way and I was driving very gently but at times I seemed to have little power. I didn't try to take it above 2500 revs but got the impression it wasn't going to do it anyway. The tip box seemed to be changing up quite early but not giving much power.

Engine still sounding fine, no more weird noises, still no warning lights, temp and pressure all fine.

A few miles from home the ABS and PSM warning lights came on along with the proceed to workshop message.

Nursed the car home, apart from the two warning lights no other symptoms.

Switched off the engine then checked oil (electronically) and it was down to 2 lights/bars!

I looked under the car and there is a flood / river of oil pouring out.

What is the diagnosis from the wisdom on the forum?

 

[Richard H]

Can you see where the oil is coming out? If it it from the engine/gearbox interface, it sounds to me like the IMS bearing has failed. If you are handy with spanners, take off the oil filter and check for debris. Otherwise, don't even think about starting it again, and get it towed to an indy.

 

[JAD]

IMS was my thought but more based on fear than knowledge. Would IMS failure cause loss of engine power but still generally sound ok and loss of auxiliaries (hence ABS and PSM warning light) ?

 

[jw1000m]

John,

I have absolutely no idea what has happened but after having such a great day today this is a rubbish post to read.

I hope the diagnosis is not so horrific as IMS but I would agree with Richard that recovery to preferred garage is the very best starting point.

Keep us informed about the outcome and I am not sure there is anything I can do but if there is just give me a shout.

Jason

 

[JAD]

I've been lucky with the car so far and up until now, no big bills or nasty surprises. In fact only good surprises!

Today was a fantastic day, learned lots, reaffirmed that 911 handle amazingly, CATDT are great instructors and there are a great bunch of guys on this forum who attended the course.

As I was saying to a few people today I tended to think the IMS/RMS issues were a bit exaggerated because you only ever hear of the negative stories, and not all those who never have a problem. I am slightly reassessing that view but will reserve judgement until a proper diagnosis but it doesn't look good.

Any thoughts on what else it might be or is IMS almost a dead cert?

 

[Richard H]

Oil pouring out is the thing that is the most concerning. That is typical of what happens when the bearing breaks loose. That, and the previous 'death rattle', is what bought me to my conclusion, but I would LOVE to be proved wrong.

 

[JAD]

Richard, thanks for your input. Having read your posts in the past I know that you frequently talk sense and I'm expecting you to be proved right. I'm just trying to be a bit more informed by people more knowledgable / experienced about Porsche (than me) before having a conversation with my garage.

'death rattle' is quite a good description of the noise that didn't last more than 90 seconds I'd guess. Even then it wasn't constant but came and went.

If it is / was IMS going then I can give quite a good layman (non mechanic) description of it and you don't get much notice!

When the noise occurred is that the warning sign or is that when the IMS actually let go? Why did the oil only pour out when I stopped?

Am I likely to have done much damage by driving home? What ?

 

[MisterCorn]

How long / how far did you drive after it happened?

MC

 

[Richard H]

Impossible to say for sure, but judging by the fact that it was running when you parked up, I would say that that is lucky in itself. I daren't speculate about the sequence of events and the noises and warnings.

Best bet is to get it towed to your indy, and get them to start by examining the filter, and take it from there. If they find metallic particles, it needs further investigation. If they aren't experienced at M96 rebuilds, and if it was me, I would get them to drop the engine and ship it to Hartech.

 

[JAD]

How long / how far did you drive after it happened?

MC

Probably about 10 miles but took about 45 minutes because of traffic - joys of London motoring :nooo:

 

[MisterCorn]

No basis on case studies, but I would think that if it was still running 45 minutes after something went bang then it 'probably' isn't going to be terminal. A big reduction in power could be the ECU putting it in 'limp home' mode. That must have seemed like the longest 45 minutes of your life. As others have said, I'd get it taken on a flatbed to a respected garage for the investigation.

Best of luck with it.

MC

 

[Partyvan]

The "loud rattling and clanking" plus "lots of oil" would suggest a major failure of some sorts, possibly a conrod through the block? If it failed at a big end, that might be enough to punch a hole and then no more noise once the (detached) piston and rod is out of the reach of the crank.

Sounds a bit too dramatic for just a seal failure.

I hope I'm wrong though. I'd start by jacking it up and having a common sense look around for gaping holes :thumb:

 

[infrasilver]

Oil P***ing out of any engine is never a good sign but hopefully its nothing too major.
Like Richard says, an idea of where it was pouring from will help diagnose.

From you explanation it sounds IMS area, if your bearing bolt had snapped it would throw it around the bell housing for a little while (tin can sound) until it settled then the bearing would progressively of got worse. I fear you may of damaged it more by carrying on driving.
Hope not though.

 

[Richard H]

possibly a conrod through the block?

I doubt very much that it has kicked a leg out of bed. The fact it was running and relatively quiet when switched off would suggest that valves may have not hit pistons, which is what usually happens when the valve timing goes out of synch after the bearing has failed, and the timing chains start jumping teeth.

Hopefully you will be (relatively) lucky.

 

[JAD]

You've probably gathered my 'skill' :?: is in driving rather than in the mechanical side of things :dont know:

The oil seemed to be coming from the centre (as opposed to the left or right) and from quite far forward (relatively) in the engine. It seemed to be around a squarish area. Sorry I can't be more specific but it was a curtain of oil pouring down that was advancing towards me in a torrent as I peered under the car :nooo:

When I was still on my way home it did cross my mind that the tip box was in some sort of 'safe' mode to protect itself and hopefully getting me home (which it did). I was sort of reassured when the warning lights finally came on after about 30 minutes and said "proceed to workshop" rather than "stop now you idiot" or something slightly politer to suggest I shouldn't drive any further. Though I do wonder if this is false hope.