Car trouble, various issues, UPDATE, engine rebuild required

[bakerboy4s]

I am astounded by your perseverance and enthusiasm, it's always a buzz to resolve issues especially if there is no cost involved.
Onwards and upwards, you'll son be planning road trips 👍😎

 

[infrasilver]

Interesting fix on the solenoid! I wonder how many other cars are driving around with a similar issue and people are replacing the solenoid instead of the quick fix that you seem to have identified!

I did wonder if this may be a future issue for some cars, the crimp they use over the notch is not very secure at all. I do think removing it may have caused it to move to some extent but it really is a weak point, using the punch will mean it'll never move again,

When I read your thread, I am reminded of why I chose to get Hartech to do all of mine! Yes it cost me more and I didn't learn anything, but I'm ok with that! I have done similar projects On other (less complicated) cars and had a similar journey to yours. Engine in, engine out, find fault, fix fault, another fault appears, change component, start again....I applaud your resilience! And I thank god I paid Hartech!

Great that it's driving better.

I do get frustrated sometimes when things don't go to plan and you end up not driving and only chucking more money at it but fixing cars in my spare time is a hobby so there is some enjoyment to it and I do love fault finding on cars, it's something I also do at work and there is some reward to sorting things out.
I gave a resounding YES!!! and fist pump in the garage yesterday when the fault code didn't re-appear.

I am astounded by your perseverance and enthusiasm, it's always a buzz to resolve issues especially if there is no cost involved.
Onwards and upwards, you'll son be planning road trips 👍😎

It was nice to sort an issue out without spending on it and hopefully this info may of use to someone else out in the future with the same fault code?

I've got a Lakes and Scottish road trip planned for the end of August then I'm hoping for a group hoon out to the Alps somewhere after that.

 

[MikMak]

Great post infrasilver and a very interesting and informative read, though personally, even though Im an enthusiastic amateur and have build a few two stroke triples over the years (kettles) I wouldn't like to attempt a similar build of this magnitude on a Porsche engine... :worship:

 

[coullstar]

Nice find on the actuators. Better is was a free find as well. Sounds like its all coming together. :thumb:

 

[infrasilver]

Great post infrasilver and a very interesting and informative read, though personally, even though Im an enthusiastic amateur and have build a few two stroke triples over the years (kettles) I wouldn't like to attempt a similar build of this magnitude on a Porsche engine... :worship:

They are nothing to be scared of really, I started when younger on Rover V8's (quite simple) and then moved on to complicated 16v bike engines but only a couple of rebuilds until years later I did my first on the 996, around 8 years ago but the reality is, if you are methodical and follow process they are reasonably simple, it is just an engine like any other.

 

[infrasilver]

Nice find on the actuators. Better is was a free find as well. Sounds like its all coming together. :thumb:

It is and was lucky I spotted the difference in them both to allow me to fix rather than replace. OPC had them in stock as I'd already checked in anticipation of getting a new one but didn't need it saving 100 quid.

I'm still having issues with the slow start when the engine is hot. As I've previously mentioned I suspected the battery but the supplying company wanted me to send it back to them to test and if found faulty they would refund £7 of the postage but it is such a heavy battery it was going to cost almost £30 to sent it back, plus if it was found to be not faulty I would also need to pay for return postage.

So earlier this week I took Kwik Fit up on their FREE battery and charging system test before sending the battery back and they found no fault with the battery or alternator, the battery has been charging and holding charge better than it had so maybe it just needed boost.

I've now moved on to the battery cables front to rear and the two earth cables as I'm getting voltage drop on the cables (I think) I have changed the earth cable from battery to chassis and will be changing the engine to chassis one today.
Next is to change the positive leads, 3 of I think but these are not cheap so I would rather eliminate them before replacing. All connections were cleaned while the engine was out so it can only be a corroded cable if the cables are to blame?

 

[infrasilver]

After I had posted the above I went outside to investigate the engine earth and the battery was flat again, I've not used the car for a few days so I'm also wondering if I have a battery drain as it was fully charged a few day before?

I ignored that for the time being as I had made up a rear earth cable to fit in the original ones place to eliminate it, I double layer heat shrunk the lead after crimping the ends on.



but after I removed the original I saw a split in the heat shrink and when I cut that sheathing off it was quite corroded within it and each strand of cable was dark.





I decided to order anew one anyway as the lead I made up was smaller wire gauge, at £30 I thought it was worth doing and it arrives on Thursday, fingers crossed it is just this causing my slow start up?

I'm not sure if a drain on the battery can be caused by a bad earth cable or not, is that possible?

 

[Ghianightmare]

Dodgey earth will contribute to poor starting. Can't remember if you did a voltage drop check on the cable from the starter to the positive terminal in the engine bay and have ruled that out?

With regard to your dead battery, as the battery checked out fine, it suggests something is not switching off. Have you checked obvious things like the frunk light and engine bay light, radio amp etc?

Other than those, you may just have to check the drain in sleep mode. You probably know this but - Fool the frunk and driver door latch to make it think it's closed, lock the car, connect the volt meter to the negative terminal and the negative lead AND THEN remove the lead. All power is now going through the volt meter. Wait for the car to go asleep. I can't remember what the 'normal" drain is for the 996, but anything you see above that means you have a drain. Then pull fuses one by one until the drain is reduced to normal levels. You can do this in an hour. Far quicker and more systematic than any other way.

 

[infrasilver]

I was going to do the voltage drop but would have meant taking the throttle body off again to get to the starter so have left that for the time being but the dodgy earth lead may just have eliminated the need to do that?

I have done testing for a battery drain but not for quite a few years, all you say rings a bell and I just watched a video earlier today saying the same.
I have the battery back on charge and will refit it in the morning and will monitor the voltage over the next few days.

 

[infrasilver]

I have left the car for over a week and been testing the car and battery daily. I took the battery off the car and fully charged it and left it on the side testing it daily, it dropped from 13.9v to 13.7 in just under a week not connected to anything.

At the same time I fitted my new S4 battery that is earmarked for the 944 to the 996 and left it connected to the car for the same time, testing daily, this dropped from 13.9 to 13.7 too but was connected to the car.

I tested for a drain but there doesn't seem to be anything of significance at all?

Last night I took it for it's first drive for around an hour to Matlock and back with it's original battery fitted again, stopping at different times and restarting, and the hot starting issue seems to have gone after fitting the new body to engine lead at least

Checking the original battery this morning, on the car, which tested 13.9 once I had arrived home yesterday and it's showing 13.6 this morning, it fired up fine but I'm sort of wondering if I should just buy a new battery, it is testing fine so I think sending it back will just cost me too much as I feel they will find it to be fault free?

 

[Ghianightmare]

There will always be an initial voltage drop on the battery. I think the recommended procedure is to turn off engine. Then turn on headlights for a few seconds to take the 'artificial top" off the battery and then measure the voltage. E.g. if you do that it may drop to 13.7 and then when you check it a few days later the drop will be minimal.

Like you, I check on YouTube for these kinds of tricks of the trade.

Don't rush into changing the battery just yet.

 

[Luddite]

Jeez, reading through this and thinking what a pain it is to try to resolve electrical issues now that cars have become so very complex. It was simpler in a time when you could just put a load test on a battery and read off a scale on the tester to judge the capability of the battery. Or you could disconnect the battery from the car`s electrical system and charge it. Leave it to settle for a couple of hours or so then measure the voltage accurately and dependant on the voltage found you could then determine the percentage efficiency of the battery. I have a cheap (old) unit that does this and displays the results by way of LEDs. The same unit can show results when connected to the battery in-situ for over/under charging, and cranking the engine as a form of load test.... ! Is it the case that such old tec, is confused when connected to modern batteries or systems..?

Pretty sure that the battery is called into immediate action to perform checks as soon as you try to enter the Porsche by touching the door handle, and that being the case it seems logical to expect voltage drop to some extent ...? To test the battery it seems best not to have it connected in the car..?

I guess the thing to remember about earths is the actual contact area of the connection, and how effective it might be...? While we tend not to like to see bare metal in our climate knowing well it attracts corrosion, good metal to metal contact is essential to provide a good earth at each and every point of connection.... Copper turning black at crimped connectors as you found Infrasilver, can be a sign that the crimp has suffered some corrosion or heat which increases it`s resistance to the flow of electricity and causes voltage drop when under load, slow starter operation, and reduced alternator efficiency to charge the battery given the same earth path is used for both functions, along with all the lesser current sensors, EFI and actuators which may show no signs of issues given their minimal current demand...?

Wherever a resistance exists in a high current demand situation heat will be generated, blackening wires, insulation, etc. etc. etc. An electric fire element is just a resistance, as is a light bulb both generating heat... Not trying to insult anyone`s intellegence, just that I try to keep it simple if possible to help ME understand.

I suspect it might help if you really clean the mating surfaces, and consider the area of contact carefully, no rusty bolt heads or washer faces, everything clean, then once connection is made to protect from corrosion taking hold, a smear of grease or paint over the whole area bolts,nuts, washers, seems like a reasonable idea..?

Of course even with a perfect electrical path to and from the starter, if the starter has poor external or internal connections at the solenoid, or the cable from the solenoid to the starter has corroded connections then the brushes in the starter and the condition of the comutator...

Yeah it can go on and on, though the confusion for me is why does the issue show up when warm...? It was ever cold and damp starts that put the battery under most load and created most issues in times past. :?:

 

[infrasilver]

I seem to be having an intermittent issue and in that it makes it much harder to trace, that or my battery is on its way out? I always advise that a hot starting issue would usually be the cables in the system.

I had a burnt out starter motor brush ring replaced and the starter tested and that really did stink and along with the black core earth cable I feel the slow starting has been resolved, itself would have been putting a strain on the battery?
When the engine was out of the car I cleaned up every earth and positive cable lug and where they meet, even the under car one but I didn't check inside the sheathing at the crimped lug end other than the dodgy earth cable I replaced and I also checked the battery to body earth cable then re heat shrunk the ends, that one was fine.

After running the car for an hour last week it has sat since then and voltage of the battery has slowly got less, 13.7 to 13.4 this morning, it will still start at that voltage but I wonder if leaving it for more than a week will stop it starting?

I'm off up to the Lakes and Scotland this weekend and I will be fitting the new Bosch S4 944 battery to the car just to eliminate the original battery failing on me while I'm away.

 

[Alex]

Mine used to struggle on hot starts and I put it down to some losses between battery and starter and also the fact my battery was over 7 years old. Since fitting a new Bosch back in December it's been fine ever since. Original battery would also be flat after a week and trigger the alarm.

Bought one of these. Ordered in the afternoon, arrived next morning:

S5 008 Bosch Car Battery 12V 77Ah Type 096 S5008

https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteri...Re-lCh25ol-f9MYy5DBSChAq8Gwrq0ZIaAmROEALw_wcB

 

[Luddite]

when the starter motor is churning over slowly due to reduced voltage, the starter motor it`s self overheats which can add a further complication when trying to to solve and intermittent issue, which can be expensive. You fit a new starter and there is and improvement over the old starter but the original issue may still be there and in time you take another starter out. Same goes if you buy a new battery, all looks good for a while then the problem creeps back in to become more obvious..?

In my old crate I ran a flat braided earth from the battery all the way to the front of the car and linked off it to connect a "T" to the gearbox to ensure the starter and charging circuit had a good earth as opposed to the more usual route through a number of links and using the chassis as an earth return.

Batteries as I new them ever had internal losses, the older and more stressed the battery the more it would shed material from the plates which would build up at the base of the plates, and once it contacted the bottom of the plates it would create a circuit across the plates creating a discharge (internal loss) the more material shed the less the resistance and the losses would become higher until the battery would discharge it`s self ever more quickly...

I know nothing of modern batteries. but it must be difficult to determine losses on a battery fitted to a car that as soon as you touch the handle the electronics switch on lights prime fuel injectors and whatever else it does before you can even get to the battery terminals to measure voltage... :?:

Hope you enjoy a trouble free trip up to my part of the world Infrasilver and that the weather is kind to you... :thumb: