993 C2 for sale - does anyone know this car

[tyinsky]

I like silver with blue leather. But then I like black with tan also so am probably a weirdo.

 

[Zingari]

I like silver with blue leather. But then I like black with tan also so am probably a weirdo.

I thought only those that failed the Ishihara Test were a fan of moody blue :dont know:

On the one hand that tan interior is a rare colour option, especially without the walnut dash covers.

 

[tyinsky]

:lol:

Imagine the fun to be had telling everyone 'I got wood"

 

[Luddite]

Yeah, I cyber looked at that one myself, as the price compared to others is bound to initially suck in anyone interested in air cooled..? As for ANY idea of INVESTMENT, I suspect you have to be one of the true believers to think along those lines..?

I bought my last 911 in 1992, it was ten years old circa 70k on the clock I think. It had been keyed on the rear quarter and the repair showed signs of paint pox, the clutch failed to disengage, it had a chocolate brown dash and door capping, tan seats with hounds tooth infill and I paid £10k for it. I spent a fair bit of time and effort to bring it back into use and enjoyed it for circa 6 years, sold it for £11k, if I remember correctly. Sure if it had a black interior I might have liked it more as opposed to the yuck colours, but it was a 911, drove like a 911 and I was a Porsche enthusiast and THAT was what really mattered to me.

I flatter myself, that my old 911 looked as good on the surface and on the day I sold it as the black one in question, though it did not have stratospheric mileage and unlikely to be hiding as much corrosion given I had repaired a bit of that around the scuttle etc though little else..? Did I read in this thread of a much younger 997 C2S that required an engine rebuild before reaching 80k miles and the mileage on this OLD 993 is more than 100k more than that... Hmm..?

As I have typed many times a friend bought his ideal spec red 964 circa 2008 for £19k, today according to the MARKET, it must be "worth" £50k... Now that might be thought of as a great INVESTMENT.. I doubt he has driven it much over the years he has owned it, but has spent money on all sorts, the engine bay looks close to perfection with the addition of a few carbon fibre bits`n bobs, he is a Porsche guy through and through. My guess is that he may have comfort in that his Porsche may be worth more than he paid for it, and I have no idea of what he has spent on it, but in reality that matters not a jot until he decides if and when to convert it to currency. On the other hand in terms of imagined value there may be returns on the investment by way of bar room chat, street cred at cars`n coffee, polishing it buying baubles for it or even driving it occasionally, matters not a jot how it is enjoyed, that it is enjoyed is that which really matters...?

My pal would seem to have bought his 964 at a time when it seems folk had finally accepted the reality that all the news stories of financial...err... maladministration by bankers and politicians would come to affect them PERSONALLY, and as such caused adjustment in the assessment of the value of everything that EASY MONEY had created up till the crash... Want a loan..? Unemployed..! No Problem, sign here..!!! No wonder folk paid over the odds to make their dreams come true, and creating the markets as they existed....But then that was a while back and we seem keen to quickly forget all that stuff.... Try opening a business bank account TODAY..?

Perhaps I may be a bit like Zingers, and less of a dreamer than many..? If matters political and financial bore you as they did me and for many years, then you can concentrate on your dreams and toy collections, but base line "expert" financial thinking seems to hint not only will the cost of Covid alone FAR exceed that of WWII, the final payments on that debt incurred, taking untill the 80`s (?) Looks to me like the kids and grand-kids of baby boomers will be paying back Covid debts for perhaps another 50 years or so..... ?

Yeah for sure I expect for a true enthusiast a high mileage less than ideal spec Porsche may not run too perfectly and require a lot of time and money spent on it, BUT it is a HOBBY and one is wise to consider the practical cost benefit analysis on that basis, unless you want to buy into the idea that IT is an investment, and like all investments the market can rise and fall, how do you imagine that might work out in time..?

Great if you have job/income and health security and of course some degree of luck, then you may be able to maintain your hobbies, when it seems many may be struggling to survive somewhat, in times when things we took for granted may have altered ...? Well if you are confident that stuff will not affect you, or the value of OLD and corroding internal combustion engined sports cars, climate change, Brexit.. Nah, no problemo...REALLY..?

For sure perhaps best to enjoy what you can and while you can before the reality of the new normal catches up with all of us..?

T`is being so cheery that keeps me going.... :floor:

 

[nickjonesn4]

Appreciate everyone's view ..... so does anyone have a nice sorted manual coupe 993 they want to part with? I have a very well sorted 997 C2S manual, 80k miles, engine rebuilt, new clutch/flywheel, stainless exhaust etc: and in case anyone is into bikes a BMW HP2 Sport, Norton Commando 961 Cafe Race and a Honda Africa Twin DCT.
Anyone up for a deal

What colour is your 997? My friend is looking for one with your spec/level of care.

It's very non-exciting silver with dark blue leather

Let me know when you are ready to sell as my pal would definitely be interested

 

[wozy]

Reading some of the above I do wonder how many people buy an old 911 because they foremost want an old air cooled to own rather than purchase one hoping/expecting to make money out of one.

None of us want to lose a shedload of money but once upon a time 'investment' would never been used buying an old car.

Yes this 200K 911 could be a money pit. Yet I was talking to a friend about classic car ownership last night and my 160K 993 is having a shed load of money being spent on her at the moment.

He was taking the micky that my car was a constant expense. So I worked out the actual cost of 50k miles of my ownership with him.

If you allow for the value going up over the last nine years I've owned her, taking into account the cost of ownership she has cost me (excluding fuel, Insurance etc) well under 10 pence a mile. Forgetting any rise in value, she has cost me 50p a mile.

We then worked out what his 996 cost him he bought new back in the day and kept for 5 years. Other than servicing the only replacement parts he had to pay out for was new disks and pads. Overall cost per mile equaled £3.00 a mile allowing for the depreciation that all new cars suffer from.

That shut him up.

If the 911 listed above could be driven for 10K miles and worse case scenario cost £20K spent on it, it would still be worth £30K and would cost 33% less per mile to run of a new 911 allowing for the depreciation that a new 911 would incur.

 

[wozy]

I'll admit though, I'm not your usual air-cooled, scared middle aged man, absolute fanny, nightmare customer. :grin:

I just think 'It is value for money compared to an 80k miler?". If it's clean and sound then yes it is.

I just looooove the top paragraph and totally agree with the btm one..

 

[Luddite]

Thanks for sharing your thinking wozy. If you read any of my ramble relative to my last 911SC I spent quite a bit of cash on it over the years, though having acquired a shed and tools enough over the years along with a modicum of experience I was able to do all the work myself, though spare parts prices were ever way more than Brit sports cars given Porsche charge more than the Light Brigade ever could..!!

Had I required to pay for others to carry out the very necessary REPAIRS then the cost of ownership would have been considerably higher, though fortunately servicing up to the 3.2 was a pretty simple and a relatively inexpensive task for a reasonably proficient spanner wielding owner when engine removal for whatever reason was a few hours work at most. Reading that on some water cooled Porsches engine removal in a fully equipped professional dealership might take 11 hrs..!!!! That is scary expensive indeed...?

The simplicity of the design of the air cooled and the engineering standards employed is much of that which attracted me to Porsche in the first place, and has caused me to retain a degree of interest in the marque. From all I have read complexity initially crept in when the digital age arrived in the shape of the 3.2, and from then on what were basic sports cars were forced to evolve to meet the expectations of those in search of more comfort and safety, perhaps not realising that ever increasing complexity would have to be engineered in to accomplish those ends, from then on adding horse power to compensate for the losses in terms of basic driver involvement seemed to be the way to go..?

Unfortunately for an old dude such as I the less driver involvement and more complexity and expense built in was a bit of a turn off, not to mention the other ...err...foibles that the design of water cooling brought with it for the flat six... Hmm..?

For sure any old air cooled seems likely to have or have had corrosion issues, and given the high mileages and many cumulative years of standing idle then having the nuts revved off it when a sunny dry day arrives, is perhaps not what comes to mind when looking at a wonderful layer of highly polished paintwork and thinking of purchase..?

Comparisons on cost benefit analysis between air cooled and water cooled seem complex also, given the hype around the Porsche brand, let alone the air cooled variety, one has only to look on YouTube to find amateur and professional film makers in their hundreds or more, waxing lyrical about the marque to the extent that air cooled values have created a market of their own in recent years. Of course the easy money years helped fuel that process.

The market is what it is TODAY, though looking ahead, I guess if you are a true enthusiast who hopes to ride out the whatever situation arises to a degree whereby your air cooled Porsche will continue to provide you with pleasure then GREAT.

I suspect there are many who run vintage sports cars and who have to search out spares at autojumbles or have them specially made, and may also require to run specialised fuels and lubricants and whatever other inconveniences might surface at any time, all the effort and expense thought more than worthwhile for a few wonderful trips in the sun whenever the stars align... (-: All of which is a tad different from running an air cooled today, but tomorrow, with the eco fuel taking over in the petrol stations of the UK on which the air cooled were not designed to run, it seems possible that evolutionary processes may in time affect the reduction ease of use, and thus the value of air cooled in the market..? However, as Jonttt ever proclaims, "they are not making any more of them." With that in mind assuming there may be enough real enthusiasts, they will ever find a way to enjoy their old Porsches if one such exists.... I hope.

Typing of true enthusiasts for their machines who live for a high degree of driver involvement at lower on road speeds you might like to beam up this vid and imagine comparisons of sorts for air cooled adventures at some future time...

Death-defying, Tiger Moth-Engined Thunderbug - YouTube

As for cost benefit analysis today, I suspect a well sorted 997.2 provides a degree of future proofing that the air cooled seems unlikely to achieve in terms of ever advancing regulation..? On the other hand I suspect there will ever be enthusiasts who may search out a more involving driving experience and at less than ballistic speeds of the sort that might shred your licence that an air cooled can provide...?

Given 997.2 are in £30k territory and far less likely to suffer structural corrosion issues, or have the high mileages that almost all air cooled should or would have when in a similar price range and may fit with your own modern and evolving motoring ideals, then fortunately the ever growing availability of track days would seem to provide the opportunity to stretch the legs of higher powered, safer water cooled Porsches and experience some real driver involvement without falling foul of the law ...?

It amuses me somewhat to read folk.. harking back.. to the mechanical more analogue experience of the earlier water cooled compared to the newer models, and again when others hark back to the non-turbo models of the much more recent water cooled as being preferable, or manual as opposed to super fast auto gear boxes... Seems it may just be down to the way we enthusiasts will ever enthuse... ld: :floor: