964 or 996 GT3?

[Luddite]

I guess other than whatever impact the change to the chemical makeup of fuel may have in time for air cooled, and that the 996 seems to be more suited to some level of fuel chemistry alteration, corrosion is perhaps an important consideration for any air cooled. There may be many a beautifully presented air cooled which under the paint is in reality a patchwork Porsche, I have owned and enjoyed more than one such, but I put the patches in, and sprayed the paint so well knew what lay below... I have also seen filler chicken wire and fibreglass used in structural areas of some old sports cars, so best to be up to speed with all the usual areas of corrosion on air cooled, or at least be sure that whoever you might choose to check things over for you, really knows the air cooled idiosyncrasies

Having typed that I would be delighted to own any air cooled even one with an acceptable degree of corrosion that was road legal. :thumb:

 

[spooky]

I guess other than whatever impact the change to the chemical makeup of fuel may have in time for air cooled, and that the 996 seems to be more suited to some level of fuel chemistry alteration, corrosion is perhaps an important consideration for any air cooled. There may be many a beautifully presented air cooled which under the paint is in reality a patchwork Porsche, I have owned and enjoyed more than one such, but I put the patches in, and sprayed the paint so well knew what lay below... I have also seen filler chicken wire and fibreglass used in structural areas of some old sports cars, so best to be up to speed with all the usual areas of corrosion on air cooled, or at least be sure that whoever you might choose to check things over for you, really knows the air cooled idiosyncrasies

Having typed that I would be delighted to own any air cooled even one with an acceptable degree of corrosion that was road legal. :thumb:

The fuel thing is an interesting one. I'm not sure what the state of play for this is in the EU.

I've checked the usual places for rust and see no signs (it's originally from Japan). I found some in the engine bay on a panel that runs parallel to the bumper on the inside but I see no signs elsewhere (I've yet to get under the car). We went around the car with a paint depth gauge and all appeared to be original except the passenger side where the door had been repainted.

It's got 40,000km showing and the condition of the car and the interior make me think it's probably genuine.

 

[spooky]

A few pics.

 

[Luddite]

Thanks for the pics... Looks on the surface to be a nice original unmolested 964, though if you have not done so already beam up some of the wonderful project threads in the 964 section to get an idea of the sort of issues the guys dealt with.

Even if it was as new and never used, I would have the dizzy out for a belt change unless it has been done in the recent past

Yeah, I like what I see in the pics... :thumb:

 

[ras62]

Looks like a Carrera 4 interior with the diff lock switch?

 

[spooky]

Looks like a Carrera 4 interior with the diff lock switch?

You're right, it is a C4. I was thinking it's a C2 for some reason but it even says Carrera 4 on the back, which is a fairly big clue... :floor:

I had something in my head about the 4 being wide body but I must have confused that with another model (997?).

My preference is for rear-wheel drive. I'm not sure I want a C4. :roll:

Now I need to look at C2 vs C4... I seem to recall it's added weight and not as nimble?

What a muppet... :roll:

 

[spooky]

I've done a bit of research and it seems that the C4 can be great if set up correctly to minimise understeer. More to go wrong but maybe more useable on the road through the year. This car does come with the original cover and a set of winter wheels (no idea what wheels they are).

I'll arrange the test drive and see what I think.

The 964 still looks like a very good car for the money and I don't think I should dismiss it simply because it's a C4. I was aware it was a C4 originally but then saw it just with the engine cover up and for some reason had got it in my head that it was a C2 because of the narrow body.

Funny...

 

[ras62]

It looks like a lovely example and provenance sounds good also. Unless you plan to ring its neck on a regular basis a well set up C4 drives near as dammit like a C2. A well set up C4 will be way better than a C2 that is tired.
On modern tyres neither car is slow btw, I did a hard drive in Wales with several GT3's and the 964 was able to sit on their bumper. On track a different matter no doubt. Actually that day probably the quickest car across the ground was a 718 Boxster S.

 

[spooky]

It looks like a lovely example and provenance sounds good also. Unless you plan to ring its neck on a regular basis a well set up C4 drives near as dammit like a C2. A well set up C4 will be way better than a C2 that is tired.
On modern tyres neither car is slow btw, I did a hard drive in Wales with several GT3's and the 964 was able to sit on their bumper. On track a different matter no doubt. Actually that day probably the quickest car across the ground was a 718 Boxster S.

The reality is that I'd be unlikely to track the 964. I'd be more likely to track the GT3 but it would still be a rare event.

A correct setup and perhaps equal size tyres front and rear (?) and the C4 should be a fine car from what I have read thus far.

I don't think it being a C4 should put me off.

 

[ras62]

Favourite setup is lower ride to RS settings +5-10MM plus RS geo. 17 inch wheels 205 F and 255R is very popular but whatever size wheels keep them as light as possible.
Rennlist forum is a great source of info

 

[spooky]

Favourite setup is lower ride to RS settings +5-10MM plus RS geo. 17 inch wheels 205 F and 255R is very popular but whatever size wheels keep them as light as possible.
Rennlist forum is a great source of info

I am tempted by the Fuchs (Fuchsfelge). I like the look of fatter tyres and so I do not mind going for smaller wheels, which should naturally be lighter, if they will accommodate the brakes, which might be upgraded at some point if I feel the need.

KW V3 seem a good choice for suspension from what I have read. I'd like to go for Ohlins road and track but I'm not convinced they would be worth the extra money for my type of use and I think they only allow for a 15mm drop? Perhaps I have read this wrong.

RS settings on the height and geometry seem a good place to start based on what I have read so far, along with decent engine and transmission parts and perhaps some other RS or similar parts.

I believe that a short shift kit is a bit more of a problem with the C4 (or perhaps just some SSKs are only for C2 so far)?

 

[Wurzel]

I noticed within the context of your posts you mentioned 2 things which stuck out to me, driver enjoyment / engagement and the 964 is a true 911.

My take on this is my view and to that end is a quite simple one and will invariably differ from others.
The 996 looks like a Boxster, the interior is neither Porsche specific and there's othing within that stands out from the past or taken forwards to future models. My opinion was they got it wrong and never went back none 911 // beetle specific headlights or interior trim.
I have owned a 996 and will never own another !

I own a 964 turbo. On an L plate in Tahoe blue. If you require engagement and involvement then having something that looks like a 911 on the inside and on the outside is in keeping with the way it hustles down the lanes.

If you don't care what it looks like as many don't, and a good many people believe the 996 is the purest rarest form of 911 then take the 996 GT3

 

[spooky]

I noticed within the context of your posts you mentioned 2 things which stuck out to me, driver enjoyment / engagement and the 964 is a true 911.

My take on this is my view and to that end is a quite simple one and will invariably differ from others.
The 996 looks like a Boxster, the interior is neither Porsche specific and there's othing within that stands out from the past or taken forwards to future models. My opinion was they got it wrong and never went back none 911 // beetle specific headlights or interior trim.
I have owned a 996 and will never own another !

I own a 964 turbo. On an L plate in Tahoe blue. If you require engagement and involvement then having something that looks like a 911 on the inside and on the outside is in keeping with the way it hustles down the lanes.

If you don't care what it looks like as many don't, and a good many people believe the 996 is the purest rarest form of 911 then take the 996 GT3

I believe the 996 GT3 is supposed to be highly regarded amongst the GT3s. The interior of the clubsport with carbon options is rather nice. I think it is really only the lights that made it controversial and particularly the similarity to the Boxster, as you say. I like all other angles and I think it is growing into it's looks as time passes. I think the GT3 will become more highly regarded as time passes.

The 964 is a pretty car though and in my eyes the last 911 to look like a classic 911. It has a certain class to it and I think I will go this way if I like how the C4 drives. There are not many around at this price and if I was looking at £10K or more higher than this price then it would be harder to argue against the GT3.

 

[Luddite]

OK, OK so I have typed my peace on the all important relativity, but if you like Harry Metcalfe and might appreciate his opinion... you could beam this one up.... As for future value differences 964- 993... That seems to be a numbers game as opposed to the emotion of ownership and driving it..?

As for future values, your guess is as good as mine, but the 964 works best for ME..relatively speaking..err..typing. (-:

https://youtu.be/s_Ae_cmUAHk

 

[Wurzel]

I understand the GT3 is fast becoming a well regarded classic. The early cars especially. The engine is the swan song for me in that car. The looks alone put me right off.

My major bug bare was that look back when parked up, it's like looking at a woman's @rse, I don't mind looking at nice ones but having to look at one that's a bit skewed always leaves that impression of the ones that looked great. And when I looked at my 996 I always felt slightly cheated in that others always looked slightly better despite the angle viewed from.

There's no doubt that there are genuine enthusiastic 996 owners who don't like the look of a traditional 911's headlight wing top structure, but that iconic front wing, bonnet, screen angle is a masterclass in vehicle architecture.
Personally I like the first Audi TT, anything after looks cheap.
My personal opinion again is that these will become my eras MGB car of choice for retirement. Something that strikes at design, build and more importantly for some. The heartstrings.

The 964 was for me the right car. The 993 bowed out with car too much emphasis put on the last air cooled classic. The 996 was a leap forwards and whilst changing to a liquid cooled engine they thought other changes needed to be adopted. The people who didn't buy the cars thought differently.