Newbie - What's the deal with this car?

Stimpy · 20 Dec 2014

Been lurking here a while but just signed up. Have noticed a particular car for sale for a while now that doesn't seem to add up, just wondered if anyone had viewed or knew what the deal was:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...che-911-964-993-carrera-4-cobalt-blue/2960033

Any info appreciated.

Tia

T8 · 20 Dec 2014

It was previously advertised here

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C561052

Basically it's a 964 with some 993 parts. I don't think you'll find many fans of it on here.

ps. :welcome: to 911uk :thumb:

Stimpy · 20 Dec 2014

Thanks T8.

It was mostly the numbers that drew my interest. Long term I would put it back to 964 - certainly I don't like the 993 front wings. I just wonder why one would change all that unless there had been a front impact, though I am aware folk like to ' update' the look of cars....

I'm pretty sure I've seen it advertised for a good part of this year which also begs questioning. But then if its a ' hybrid' 964 many folk would not have interest.

igaffz · 20 Dec 2014

I'm all for modding but if you want a 964 buy a 964 and if you want a 993 buy a 993 it's £18500 for gods sake! :?

Ian

Zingari · 20 Dec 2014

To convert that back and to do it right you'll probably be up to the £30k mark so I'd rather look for a 964 :thumb:

It's not selling for a reason - 993 buyers wont touch it and 964 buyers will look for a 964 :roll:

timm996 · 21 Dec 2014

Def a mongrel. I wouldnt be be happy with it.

Stimpy · 21 Dec 2014

igaffz said:
I'm all for modding but if you want a 964 buy a 964 and if you want a 993 buy a 993 it's £18500 for gods sake! :?

Ian

Completely agree re the buy what you're after, but folk do funny things sometimes!

As to £18.5k, that's before talking about numbers/ offers etc - I would never pay that. and if the mileage and history are correct then it would certainly 'seem' worth saving.

My primary concern with this car would be 'why' it was converted?.

I'm also trying to work out exactly what has been changed. I don't know enough about Porsche details to recognise all that's changed body wise. I'm presuming the rear quarters are still 964? Which would mean front wings and bumpers - does anyone know?

Also, re the cost equation - I would be doing all the work myself which saves a small fortune....

Anyway, just contemplating at this stage - interested with the facts and learning.

Thanks.

Stimpy · 21 Dec 2014

timm996 said:
Def a mongrel. I wouldnt be be happy with it.

Again, depends mostly on "why" it's a mongrel.

Plenty of folk have had a replacement wing on there cars or extensive welding, perhaps an interior update too, or an engine upgrade.... If it was "put" back to 964 then it would be , erm, a 964 surely :?:

Just food for thought.

PeterS · 21 Dec 2014

Mongrel or not, it doesn't seem a bad car on the surface.

it would need to be good for that money though, perhaps it is.

Or perhaps. It's not, which is why it hasn't sold.

Zingari · 21 Dec 2014

I'd say the rear panels are 993WB as 964 are different and much narrower profile.

If you got it for c£15k its worth a punt as the sum of the parts can easily reach £12k (or if you bought all from Douglas Valley £120k+ :roll: )

I like this comment Rare Example As There's Not Many Found Like This

How true. There's a reason

Stimpy · 21 Dec 2014

PeterS said:
Mongrel or not, it doesn't seem a bad car on the surface.

it would need to be good for that money though, perhaps it is.

Or perhaps. It's not, which is why it hasn't sold.

Yes, that's the question really - hence I thought I'd ask if anyone had viewed...

Do you know about the rear quarters or what has changed externally exactly?

I have made enquiries to the seller so should have some info soon hopefully. It could well be a polished mongrel turd, but in equal measures it could also be a rough diamond....

Stimpy · 21 Dec 2014

Zingari said:
I'd say the rear panels are 993WB as 964 are different and much narrower profile.

If you got it for c£15k its worth a punt as the sum of the parts can easily reach £12k (or if you bought all from Douglas Valley £120k+ :roll: )

I like this comment Rare Example As There's Not Many Found Like This

How true. There's a reason

Douglas valley are known about in many fields! Haha

It's these rear quarters that concern me the most tbh, front wings and bolt on parts are one thing.... The latter quite a different story...

Oh, and rare example made me giggle too!!!

Patronus · 21 Dec 2014

Maybe it can be of use to someone who wants to build a track car where originality and pedigree doesn't matter but even then the price is too high.

To convert back to 964 you need (just off the top of my head):

New front bumper + centre grille + seals
New front bumper reinforcement bar, brackets & fittings (don't think it's the same as 964)
New headlights + indicators + fog lights
New front fenders
New front wheel housing liners + brackets
New fuel filler housing
I think some of the plumbing inside the fenders such as water tanks, pipes etc will be different for 964 so will need replacement
The 993 rear fenders have to be cut out and new 964 fenders have to be welded in
New rear wheel housing liners
I think the cross member behind the engine will either need to be replaced or reworked to accept the 964 centre reflector
New rear lights + centre reflector
New rear bumper + 964 bumper supports
New 964 heat shields
964 side sills
964 engine lid + mechanism + grille (I don't think the mechanism + grille are interchangeable with 993)
Some of the interior panels seems to be 993 and will have to be replaced with 964 including the front & rear seats & doors
Wheels are 993
Oh yes, then when all is done, a respray.

A very, very, expensive exercise to convert it back to original in other words. Much more expensive than just buying a really good 964. Or 993.

Stimpy · 21 Dec 2014

Patronus said:
Maybe it can be of use to someone who wants to build a track car where originality and pedigree doesn't matter but even then the price is too high.

To convert back to 964 you need (just off the top of my head):

New front bumper + centre grille + seals
New front bumper reinforcement bar, brackets & fittings (don't think it's the same as 964)
New headlights + indicators + fog lights
New front fenders
New front wheel housing liners + brackets
New fuel filler housing
I think some of the plumbing inside the fenders such as water tanks, pipes etc will be different for 964 so will need replacement
The 993 rear fenders have to be cut out and new 964 fenders have to be welded in
New rear wheel housing liners
I think the cross member behind the engine will either need to be replaced or reworked to accept the 964 centre reflector
New rear lights + centre reflector
New rear bumper + 964 bumper supports
New 964 heat shields
964 side sills
964 engine lid + mechanism + grille (I don't think the mechanism + grille are interchangeable with 993)
Some of the interior panels seems to be 993 and will have to be replaced with 964 including the front & rear seats & doors
Wheels are 993
Oh yes, then when all is done, a respray.

A very, very, expensive exercise to convert it back to original in other words. Much more expensive than just buying a really good 964. Or 993.

Thanks for the list. Are you sure it has 993 rear quarters on? I just can't tell from the pics. If it did you'd have to assume due to the work involved that the car was quite seriously damaged at some point to warrant that work...

Patronus · 21 Dec 2014

Those are 993 rear fenders for sure. They are vastly different from the 964 and without them the 993 rear lights, side sills and bumper won't fit.

The car must have spun through a hedge and a few outbuildings to warrant that amount of modification. I think the driver must have bumped his head also really hard to have considered it.

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