First Porsche purchase hampered by fear.

cannondalerugby5 · 21 Oct 2014

Hi

Thanks for reading

I would like to buy my first Porsche

I have seen a great 997 C4S with full history, 80k miles,at £23,000.

The car is imaculate however I am really worried about the stories I have read reference the IMS and Bore Scoring!

I am close to my budget limit and dont have a big contingency fund should something go wrong.

My questions;

I am told if the car has acheived 80k miles the problem would have presented by now?

Can I purchase a solution that would guard against this catastrophe?

Thanks in anticipation

Steve

T8 · 21 Oct 2014

:welcome: to 911uk Steve.

Sadly you are facing the quandary that all prospective owners who've done their homework face.

A 997C4S for £23k represents fantastic value for money. Many people would buy it based on that fact alone. Most of them would have a truly amazing ownership experience.

BUT ... anyone like you that has read up on the potential issues will be understandably wary.

The potential for engine issues on these cars is real but given how many were produced and how low the actual failure rate is there's a good chance you'll be ok. Whether the car has done 40k, 80k or 120k without problems is sadly irrelevant. :nooo: Unfortunately, short of spending thousands of pounds on a preventative strip down and rebuild there's nothing that you can do to guarantee that an issue won't occur without notice.

£23k sounds like a great budget to have but if it doesn't leave you anything in reserve - for relatively minor things, let alone the biggies - it's probably not wise to spend it all on the car purchase.

I'm sure that the above will only have made your decision more difficult - sorry.

Good luck.

cannondalerugby5 · 21 Oct 2014

Thanks T8 - Thats great info - I would have a small buget £ 2/3 k to do the small jobs.
How much do you think the premptive work would cost?

I would love to buy the car.

Guess I could try and find a car that had had the work done!

Cheers

Steve

Sadly you are facing the quandary that all prospective owners who've done their homework face.

A 997C4S for £23k represents fantastic value for money. Many people would buy it based on that fact alone. Most of them would have a truly amazing ownership experience.

BUT ... anyone like you that has read up on the potential issues will be understandably wary.

The potential for engine issues on these cars is real but given how many were produced and how low the actual failure rate is there's a good chance you'll be ok. Whether the car has done 40k, 80k or 120k without problems is sadly irrelevant. :nooo: Unfortunately, short of spending thousands of pounds on a preventative strip down and rebuild there's nothing that you can do to guarantee that an issue won't occur without notice.

£23k sounds like a great budget to have but if it doesn't leave you anything in reserve - for relatively minor things, let alone the biggies - it's probably not wise to spend it all on the car purchase.

I'm sure that the above will only have made your decision more difficult - sorry.

Good luck.[/quote]

MarkGolf · 21 Oct 2014

It is tough, your head says no but your heart says yes, the temptation to just go ahead is hard to resist.. You can do your home work and try and look for as many signs as possible before going for it though..

If your buying from a private seller and if I were you, I would not think twice about arranging a 3rd party inspection where they can/will perform a borescope check on the car provided the seller is OK with this.. It will give you the best piece of mind.. If you are buying from a garage, make it a condition that you will only buy the car if the bores are OK and be there when they perform the check.

That is all relating to the bore score issue anyway.. IMS you may be able to get some indication by looking at the underside where the gearbox meets the engine, there is a small hole which allows an oil leak from the IMS to be spotted...

Big Phil1 · 21 Oct 2014

Hi Steve,

There is no easy answer to this. I have just recently bought a C2S and have faced the same worries.

Services (if done through an OPC) can be very costly and that's without having much wrong with it!

The main thing I looked for was a consistent service history ideally from an OPC.

Everything else is a lottery. I would recommend that you get a Warranty that will cover the potential engine problems so at least any major work will be covered. I went with Warranty Direct who were expensive but seemed to offer the most inclusive cover.

I also put away £400 each month as a slush fund for other stuff - tyres etc.

I have got 80k miles on mine and it drives like it was new - It is my first Porsche and I still have the massive grin on my face that I had when I test drove it!

At the end of the day, you have to remember it is classed as a super car so the running cocst will reflect that

Phil

MJA911 · 21 Oct 2014

You don't say what age the car is, but a well-spec'd 997 C4S for £23k in top condition with full service history that passes a proper pre-purchase inspection (PPI) that you then own using good practice (e.g. lower temp thermostat, oil changes yearly/6k miles, proper warm up before driving hard) is very likely to be everything you hoped for from 911 ownership and more :thumb:

However, we're all different, for some people that PPI backed up by good practice in ownership would put the risk of engine failure low enough for them to pretty much forget about it, but if it did happen, be prepared to stump up £6-£10k for a rebuild. This could be because to buy that car from a Porsche specialist with a gold-plated warranty could have cost a good chunk of that £6-10k extra in any case and a top rebuild would make it lovely keeper.

Other people would still want more assurance against big bills to be able to enjoy the car and this can be found via a maintenance plan such as the Hartech Lifetime Maintenace Plan or an after-market warranty that has large enough claim limits and labour rates and does not have exclusions that make it pointless for these cars.

Bottom line is you're asking yourself the right questions before buying.

cannondalerugby5 · 21 Oct 2014

Age

Sorry

I should have stated that the car is an 06

Thanks for all the advice.

So far actions appear to be ;

Get an inspection,keep a pot of money,look after it,hope for the best!

Anybody reccomend an independent inspection in the North East

Thanks

Steve

isysman · 21 Oct 2014

MarkGolf said:
It is tough, your head says no but your heart says yes, the temptation to just go ahead is hard to resist.. You can do your home work and try and look for as many signs as possible before going for it though..

If your buying from a private seller and if I were you, I would not think twice about arranging a 3rd party inspection where they can/will perform a borescope check on the car provided the seller is OK with this.. It will give you the best piece of mind.. If you are buying from a garage, make it a condition that you will only buy the car if the bores are OK and be there when they perform the check.

That is all relating to the bore score issue anyway.. IMS you may be able to get some indication by looking at the underside where the gearbox meets the engine, there is a small hole which allows an oil leak from the IMS to be spotted...

This is pretty much everything I was going to write. Get it checked by third party Porsche specialist, borescope etc, get the all clear and be happy!

g4rfy · 21 Oct 2014

I went through the same thought process that you are currently experiencing.

I read lots of forums and lots of ways that the potential failures can be prevented.

In my opinion its all about buying the right car, in terms of inspections, and the 'feeling' that car gives you. Before you section me, let me explain.

I looked at lots of cars that appeared on the surface to be lovely, however looking at history and pedigree made me shy away.

My car 'appeared' when I had almost given up and its exactly what I would have bought if I was buying new, apart from the colour. The car has been garaged, covered and only covered 4000 miles a year.

My car has a full service history, the later IMS bearing and has had a recent bore inspection. I have fitted a LTT and a magnetic sump plug and am looking at adding the 3rd radiator. This is clearly prevention and will not guarantee against failure.

I think someone has previously mentioned this but I 'self warranty' by having a sinking fund building up on a monthly basis to cover the cost of the worst situation or to lessen the expense of my next 911.

My advice is to take all precautions before buying and then carry out the preventative maintenance and then drive the car and enjoy it.

G

cheshire911 · 21 Oct 2014

It's all down to your appetite for risk. One thing you should consider is if the engine suffers the failures its renowned for, you are looking at a £10k engine rebuild cost.

Failure rates expressed as a % per 1000 cars dimish the impact on you if it happens. As you will not have many Porsche's, if yours goes pop, the failure rate is 100%

Good luck whatever you choose.

Chris_in_the_UK · 21 Oct 2014

Buy the car that exhibit's none of the obvious issues through careful shopping and inspection.

Cut the risk of future problems by fitting LTT, third radiator, frequent oil changes and basic driving discipline (warm up properly etc.).

Enjoy the car!

cheshire911 · 21 Oct 2014

Search the forum by threads from Baz Hart of Hartech and go on his website where he has written up some very useful information.

I'd also suggest that you call Hartech and speak to either Grant or Tobias and explore your fears with them and let them give you guidance based on the benefits of their experience.

You are doing right by researching your fears and then deciding.

jonttt · 21 Oct 2014

cannondalerugby5 said:
Hi

Thanks for reading

I would like to buy my first Porsche

I have seen a great 997 C4S with full history, 80k miles,at £23,000.

The car is imaculate however I am really worried about the stories I have read reference the IMS and Bore Scoring!

I am close to my budget limit and dont have a big contingency fund should something go wrong.

My questions;

I am told if the car has acheived 80k miles the problem would have presented by now?

Can I purchase a solution that would guard against this catastrophe?

Thanks in anticipation

Steve

To me it is the wrong car for you given your budget.

I have a good friend who was in the same position as you a couple of years ago, the budget was consequently slightly higher but had the same factors. In the end he bought, it was his dream car.... But 10 months later he sold it out of the blue and lost c£10k in trade in. He was as a relieved man. He had kept it to himself but the stress and worry simply ruined the experience for him and even his mrs said he was back to his old self again afterwards. It is out of his system now but he would have been better still having the dream and buying in another few years, a great shame.

It comes down to budget unfortunately really, it's a £70k car remember and is the difference between being able to afford a £10k bill for anything or not. No one wants the bill but affordability in running is just as important as in the buying for the full blown user experience IMHO.

I learned the hard way many years ago, if I have £30k to spend on a car, spend <£25k and I would enjoy it more as an overall ownership experience :thumb:

cheshire911 · 21 Oct 2014

Sound advice from Jontt. I considered a C4S and a Turbo. But the more research I did, the less comfortable I felt about the NA car and the more compelling the pull towards the Turbo. I increased the budget by £10k and kept £3k reserve and bought the Turbo.

There are lots of good NA cars out there, but the thought of sleeping with a sixpence under the pillow, changing the oil every 4 months, fitting a LTT, warming the engine up before opening it up and STILL having the engine go POP was a risk I wasn't prepared to take.

For me, it is the Turbo every time and if it were to be a 996 NA car, it would be the GT3 - common denominator? Mezger.

If £23k is the top end of your budget, think carefully about the car you have posted.

cannondalerugby5 · 21 Oct 2014

Flexible

Hi Guys

Thanks to all you Porsche sages delivering your wisdom - its greatly appreciated.

My £23k is not rigid,I could flex another £3k but it appears that may not be enough!

I was just about to type " perhaps I should consider a turbo" when I read chesire 911s post

What should I look for in the Turbo range for about £25k

Thanks

Steve

First Porsche purchase hampered by fear.

cannondalerugby5

New member

T8

Super Moderator

cannondalerugby5

New member

MarkGolf

Sao Paulo

Big Phil1

Silverstone

MJA911

Singapore

cannondalerugby5

New member

isysman

Daytona

g4rfy

New member

cheshire911

Portimao

Chris_in_the_UK

Estoril

cheshire911

Portimao

jonttt

Monaco

cheshire911

Portimao

cannondalerugby5

New member

Similar threads

Latest posts

New Threads

Porsche Model Range

Porsche 911

Porsche Hypercars

Other Current Porsche Model

Porsche Legacy Models

Forum statistics