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NOT engine rebuild time - AOS fooled me....

G

Grahaml

Silverstone
Joined
10 Aug 2009
Messages
124
After three and a half years owning a boxster S and now a year and a half with a 996 C4 (2001) I had heard all the doom and gloom stories about IMS, bore scoring etc. I reckoned I would take my chances - the actual numbers affected must be far less than some would have us believe.

So I service and change oil annually (6K miles); I use Millers Nanodrive (very expensive - but recommended by Hartech); and I fitted a Low temp thermostat. I warm the engine up (below 3K) carefully before opening it up. It's done 73K miles (6K in the last year) - the previous owner had it for 5 years and only did about 15k miles in that time which I know is not always the best for these cars.

But - you can guess where this is going.....

My lovely Porsche 996 C4 (has a broken engine. My son was driving at the time - coming into town limits, decelerating - not very fast - lots of smoke behind him. It was a misty night and he wasn't really aware of anything - except the mist seemed thicker!! But his passenger drew it to his attention and he just put it into neutral and coasted to a stop at my house - only a few yards from where he was first aware of the problem. The engine stopped.

There was oil dripping from the exhaust, I tried turning the engine over but it appeared locked (seized?).

Quite disappointing - to say the least.

What would fellow forum members recommend?
- I could sell minus engine I suppose but I'm looking at rebuild options mainly

- I'm a pretty able mechanic and very careful and I am even considering doing it myself but others put me off that idea, experience, special tools etc...

- perhaps the obvious might be Hartech - but still costly - I guess I wouldn't know until the engine is apart but I reckon it must come to at least £6,500 looking at the menu prices.

- I checked out SVP - costs at £9,600 inc VAT - I would save £1,000 by taking the engine out

- I'm looking at "Engineandgearboxspecialists" who advertise on Ebay at £3,995 - with a 12 month guarantee. I must say it's tempting. Does anyone have any experience of them?

any other thoughts?

thanks

Graham
 
You have my sympathy Graham.

I always wondered what I'd do if the same thing happened to my C4 and moved on after 3.5 years without having to find out.

14 months on I still wonder. :dont know:

I suppose so much depends on how much you like the car. If you'd really like to keep it for a few years it would pay you to have it fixed properly (eg. by Hartech) safe in the knowledge that you'd have a bullet proof car for the duration.

If the rest of the car is sound you'd have a fantastic car for a £10k spend. If you sold it as it stands for ...... £3k .... £4k ..... :?: you'd need to put £8k to that to buy a similar car as a replacement and that wouldn't have a new engine.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Sorry to hear about your C4 Graham,

I would agree with T8, if you like the car, or want to have one in your life, it's still cheaper to fix your existing one that buy another and be fraught with worry.

I'm probably the furthest from an expert on the subject, but am sure IMS failure comes with immediate and a very distinct change in engine noise? Bore score is quite a gradual deterioration of the engine, and not sudden. Either way it doesn't make your situation any easier to swallow.

For what its worth, if my C4S were to break tommorow, I'd use Hartech without question, having them fix, and allowing many many years of happy 911 ownership.

Keep us posted.

Scott.
 
Hi,

Sorry to hear the bad news Graham.

I'd be finding out what's actually failed before making any decisions. It may not be as bad as the IMS bearing failing.
 
You are right of course Alex - but even that is part of my consideration

Even getting to that stage would be costly - e.g. Hartech quote over £2,500 for the basic strip and build.


I am thinking I will remove the motor and give it a few checks - drain the oil and see what else comes out?

I am happy enough to strip it but that may be counter-producive if it makes the job less easy (or attractive) to an engine builder.

I have spend a bit of money - and lots of time on my car - replaced alll the brake pipes, just had new tyres, body kit, lowered springs, wheel spacers, double din audio/satnav thingy, short-shift kit, painted calipers etc...

I really wanted a few opinions - and especially anyone with knowledge or experience of "Engineandgearboxspecialists" who advertise on Ebay at £3,995 - with a 12 month guarantee.

It will maybe just give me a chance to try something else for a bit - and give my pocket a rest!!

I guess I need to actually speak to a few more builders - certainly Hartech anyway.
 
From "oil dripping from the exhaust" I suspect something other than an IMS bearing failure - but its still going to be costly to fix. You might be into replacement (used) engine territory.

Chris.
 
I'm looking through previous posts as we "speak".

My natural instinct is to do it myself - and although I am reasonably able and careful I am not a pro and there's always a chance I miss something from simply "not knowing what I don't know".

I thought IMS simply because it so often singled out as the Achilles heel in these cars but I know there are other issues.

If can even save myself a couple of thousand by providing my own labour to strip and build it's probably still worth it.

Until I begin the investigations I don't know what it is though - but it sounds like I will need to be replacing parts.

As I said before I am tempted to just get a lower cost (only £4k eek!!) rebuild and sell it. The engine comes with a 1 year guarantee (or two if they fit it) - which is more than most cars sold would have!

Or then again I maybe build and improve it and keep it!!

I am going to need to spend money anyway!
 
I wish - but I doubt it - the engine is solid!!

I had an AOS fail on my Boxster which was a fairly straightforward replacement (although a bit awkward to reach - (I hear the 911 is even harder - when the motor is in place)

I am reading through Infrasilver's rebuild just now - with lots of useful comments from Baz at Hartech.

I am still keeping an open mind to options at the moment.

Graham
 
Sounds like it has D chunked to me as the cylinder wall would break allowing coolant into the cylinder hydrolocking the engine but the confusing thing to me at the moment it is why was there oil coming from the exhaust? Could it of been dirty coolant and the exhaust valves were open at the time?
 
Personally, I'd want to be confident in the fix, i.e. with a known specialist rather than an unknown or general mechanic. That said, I think I'd drop the engine and open it up for investigation before sending it away. I'd want to know what I was dealing with, as I may be tempted to DIY. But if it's D chunking that's the issue, it'll have to be sent away, albeit pre-stripped.

Have you tried other reputable garages such as Autofarm or 9e etc? There might be quite some variation in pricing.

If you're really interested in the eBay seller, why not drop him a message asking for his contact details and pay him a visit? At least that way you can see what kind of operation s/he's running. If he's operating out of a shed, you might want to look elsewhere.....
 
Sorry to here of your problem Grahaml, I now that after I discovered the bores were scored in mine it felt as if the bottom had fallen out of my world.
Whilst I was fortunate in that the seller paid for the rectification work (I only discovered the issue about 2 months after purchase) what I would say is if you do it yourself or get a reputable garage to carry out the work it may be worth spending the extra and getting as many of the 'know issues' or preventative measures undertaken as possible. From my understanding it doesn't sound like IMS with yours and even though mine hadn't let go, whilst they had the engine out I went for an uprated shaft (ooh er!) and bearing on the basis that if the engine was out I may as well do as much as I can to prevent any further issues. That said I am fortunate in that mine is a second car and I don't see me moving it on for a very long time (if ever) so was prepared to put money into it. (Money I only had as I sold my Cayenne Privately for a shed load more than I was offered in p/x by the way.)
 
Replace/rebuild my 996??

Well after putting it off for a while I have decided at least to remove the engine myself and then see - I suspect I will be too tempted to "have a look" and by that time I might as well keep going and do the rebuilt myself. We will see though - might chicken out when it comes to it.

I drained the oil - no metal in the filter - no fragments came out with the oil - just good old Millers Nanotech!!

So I am part way through removing the engine - it's a lot of work just to get everything out of the way and I am being very careful. In the next few days it will be out though.

The manual - and http://www.oz951.com/public/enginedrop.htm which I followed/studied don'd cover the C4 - so I have an extra prop shaft to deal with.

I haven't much to do before lowering it - just to disconnect the gear cables and then unbolt the rear mounts - I've already removed the front gearbox mount.

Does anyone know (I don't want to break anything) - do the cable ends just pop off?

I have left the exhaust on complete for now but I've had it off a few times before so I might remove it first just to ease access and make the unit smaller.

I will try and get some pictures posted - this may be a bit of a saga!!
 
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