Newbie needs help! Buying 997 ,advice please

koevoet · 16 Feb 2014

I am intending to buy my first Porsche, I am considering a 997 turbo, gen 1 with a manual gearbox as first choice, wondering about C4S gen 2, but have heard the mantra 100bhp per driven wheel incessantly from friends with F430 and GTR.....I tried a gen 1 C2S but was (don't abuse me!!) underwhelmed, lovely car but just didn't light a fire. Had a 10 minute test of a turbo 4 months ago which was awesome. OPC Edinburgh gave me a Cayman S(981) for 24 hours which ticked every box emotionally, but still have that inner child wanting the turbo in the garage and not the bedroom wall.
anyway, budget is a max of £48k and the questions (1) if buying from the likes of RSJ, Paragon,RPM Technik or 911 virgin, would
you still get an inspection completed by the likes of Peter Morgan? the aforementioned dealers all have fantastic reputations.
2. I appreciate that these dealers also spend considerable effort in making the cars look immaculate, but feel that I may end up buying a car undriven.
is it the norm to not offer test drives (can understand why, but its a lot of money to give over untested) part of my concern stems from the fact that I live the best part of 400 miles from most of these guys. I am not suggesting in any way that those mentioned would sell a bad car, just that this approach is new to me.
Appreciate any helpful views or experiences. I do see that RSJ certainly seem to have the most plentiful supply of turbo's.
3. anything particular to watch for in a gen 1 turbo?

Slayer · 16 Feb 2014

Gen 1 Turbo is a very good car.
FPSH/ make sure there is no serious over rev's in the recent past.
Suggest OPC warranty
Sports chrono is 'a kind' of must option.
Just don't jump into buying a car..make sure you tick most of the desired options! :thumb:

T8 · 16 Feb 2014

£48k budget :envy:

You'll get a very nice 997T from a reputable dealer for that. If buying from one of the specialists you've mentioned I certainly wouldn't bother with a PPI.

However I wouldn't buy without taking a test drive first. If you liked the 981 Cayman S the car may not suit you. Turbos are a different beast to drive than any normally aspirated 911 once the turbo rush novelty wears off.

What didn't you like about the 997.1 C2S you tried :?:

Don't get me wrong, in your position I'd go for the 997T but make sure that it's the car you want before parting with that sort of dosh.

Happy Hunting

ps. :welcome: to 911uk.

MJA911 · 16 Feb 2014

With £48k a very nice gen 1 turbo is well in range, but so would a gen 2 997 c4s with PDK, surely worth a test drive if you can get one?

koevoet · 16 Feb 2014

"What didn't you like about the 997.1 C2S you tried?"

there was nothing about that car not to like, but it simply didn't excite me, it was a stunning car inside and out and only 25k miles.But it left me emotionally unmoved, there was no real sense of urgency(despite the fact it was clearly going quickly), no engine wail or exhaust noise. All the things the Cayman provided in spades. I appreciate the turbo will also likely be missing a good wail too. The car I buy will simply be a toy, I work overseas and the car's going to be spending a large proportion of the year in the garage, so I want a car that I can take the Wife away to a nice hotel, thrash the arse of it (car not Wife) when the mood takes me and gives all the feedback one expects of a good sportscar. The Highlands are on my door step so epic roads are not far away.But one of these days when child has grown out of family summer holidays it would be nice to drive to the South of France, Italy etc etc (Solo trips with like minded mates to Spa and the Nurburgring before that though) so a good all rounder would be nice. Is the turbo simply too fast for Scottish roads? Mate suggests his Datsun GTR is not really settling into the groove until around 120 plus.
Was thinking of Gen 2 C2S but not driven.
C4S was until recently not on the list, but coming into focus now though. A PDK gen 2 with sport design wheel and PSE would certainly be of interest. Partly thinking about the Turbo gen 1 as it's the last of the Mezger turbos so it's a wee bit of history. Really struggling to a get test drives though.

911UK · 16 Feb 2014

options from

http://www.dovehousecars.com/vehicles/default.asp?make=Porsche
http://www.harbourcars.com/current-stock/
http://www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/used-porsche/
http://www.chappellsportscars.com/
http://www.cameronsportscars.com/
http://www.porschehost.com/ApprovedStockIframe.asp?opc=41

T8 · 17 Feb 2014

koevoet said:
"What didn't you like about the 997.1 C2S you tried?"

there was nothing about that car not to like, but it simply didn't excite me, it was a stunning car inside and out and only 25k miles.But it left me emotionally unmoved, there was no real sense of urgency(despite the fact it was clearly going quickly), no engine wail or exhaust noise. All the things the Cayman provided in spades. I appreciate the turbo will also likely be missing a good wail too. The car I buy will simply be a toy, I work overseas and the car's going to be spending a large proportion of the year in the garage, so I want a car that I can take the Wife away to a nice hotel, thrash the arse of it (car not Wife) when the mood takes me and gives all the feedback one expects of a good sportscar. The Highlands are on my door step so epic roads are not far away.But one of these days when child has grown out of family summer holidays it would be nice to drive to the South of France, Italy etc etc (Solo trips with like minded mates to Spa and the Nurburgring before that though) so a good all rounder would be nice. Is the turbo simply too fast for Scottish roads? Mate suggests his Datsun GTR is not really settling into the groove until around 120 plus.
Was thinking of Gen 2 C2S but not driven.
C4S was until recently not on the list, but coming into focus now though. A PDK gen 2 with sport design wheel and PSE would certainly be of interest. Partly thinking about the Turbo gen 1 as it's the last of the Mezger turbos so it's a wee bit of history. Really struggling to a get test drives though.

You do have a dilemma.

The performance of a Turbo is very much point and squirt. The fantastic torque means you reach silly speeds very quickly but on tight roads this just means that you have to brake a lot more. A NA car is easier to drive in a flowing manner. You can adapt to flow the Turbo but as that means not pressing the throttle hard it sort of defeats the object of having a Turbo.

If noise = "sense of urgency", you'll be very disappointed with the Turbo.

If 'sports car feedback' is important you'd probably want to stick with rwd.

All-in-all it sounds to me like a 997 C2S with PSE would suit you best. :judge:

koevoet · 17 Feb 2014

T8 you are spot on, I do indeed find myself on the horns of a dilemma, but it is a hell of a dilemma

Your answers do tend to confirm what I was beginning to think myself. Much as I do love the thought of the Turbo, it is possibly not going to give what I really am after, to this end I will also try a gen 2 C4S and C2S.
Thanks for the input,appreciated. Now I need to try and find a couple to try and see which gives the biggest smiles! Now, Aero kit or not...?

Andy_Ran · 17 Feb 2014

I had the same dilemma last year, I ended up with a 997.1 Turbo and still feel like it was the best choice I could have made.

I went down to Paragon and can honestly say their service was perfect, the best used car experience i have ever had, much much better than the main dealer gave me.

I drove two cars, both for a good length of time and walked out beaming. I didn't end up getting my car from them, but their advice thought the entire purchase was 2nd to none.

If you can get down to them do so.

John H · 17 Feb 2014

Agree with most of what's been said above, but wouldn't buy any used car of any description without a lengthy test drive... :nooo:

How could you even hope to find the right one for you without trying it first?

Best of luck with your search... :thumb:

koevoet · 17 Feb 2014

I still fancy the turbo, will try the gen 2 C4S and Gen 2 C2S(but is it much different from the gen 1 C2S?). Although I am sure that I can learn to moderate my right foot accordingly. Turbo seems the ultimate A9 tool!

John, I have absolutely no intention of handing over 40k+ without testing the cars for exactly that reason. All I am saying is that I am finding it very difficult to find cars that I can test drive. One Well respected Independent does not do test drives unless they have just taken in the type you are after, once the car is prepped its not for driving. My biggest problem is that there are next to no specialists in Scotland. Most are centred around the south of England. The gen 1 turbo is no longer readily available from OPC's. And so far my local OPC has been of mixed assistance. Very good at times, but very poor in getting back in touch when I ask about further test drives - had a brief drive of a 981 Boxster S and a longer test of the 981 Cayman S.
I had heard good things about Paragon too, I am thinking of booking a return to Heathrow and paying a visit to Paragon and 911 Virgin and RSJ. Will need to see what's available, but RSJ would have to be once I have decided as they don't do test drives.Not sure about 911V or paragon. I am not wanting to come across as a test pilot either and waste peoples time as I am not in a position to buy until July as say.
Working overseas makes timing harder, I want the car in July, dealers see that as 5 months away, but to me that's 2 trips, so I can only readily try cars in March or May (I'm in China @ the moment and work 5 and 5) after that I want to know exactly what model and rough spec I'm after so I then go after the car in July, have it for the summer and then it will be garaged for the winter!

MJA911 · 17 Feb 2014

koevoet said:
I still fancy the turbo, will try the gen 2 C4S and Gen 2 C2S(but is it much different from the gen 1 C2S?). Although I am sure that I can learn to moderate my right foot accordingly. Turbo seems the ultimate A9 tool!

Since getting my gen1 C2S and recently driving a gen2 I'd say it's the same but noticeably better in several areas. More power, more modern (inside and out), tweaked suspension, plus of course the availability of PDK (with optional sport chrono plus/launch control, sport design wheel with paddles - very desirable) being the main things.

koevoet · 18 Feb 2014

I do like the idea of the options you mention, the sport Chrono, PDK and the sport design steering wheel. but like the history with the Mezger engine.Also the likelihood of less depreciation with buying the manual 997 turbo.But it's all down to which feels best, it's supposed to be a keeper!
It's now just a matter of trying some cars. I have tried a turbo, if only briefly and was very impressed.I just wondered if the driving experience of the gen 2S was much different from that of the gen 1?

Will try and arrange some cars when I am back in March. I'll call Paragon and 911 too and see what they have to say, perhaps combine a trip down and some visits.

T8 · 18 Feb 2014

koevoet said:
I am not wanting to come across as a test pilot either and waste peoples time as I am not in a position to buy until July as say.
Working overseas makes timing harder, I want the car in July, dealers see that as 5 months away, but to me that's 2 trips, so I can only readily try cars in March or May (I'm in China @ the moment and work 5 and 5) after that I want to know exactly what model and rough spec I'm after ...........

Sorry koevoet but whilst I sympathise with your circumstances I can understand the reluctance of dealers to let you test drive their cars.

If you're not sure of what car you want and aren't going to be in a position to buy for 5 months you will come across as a 'test-pilot' and they will think you're wasting their time.

If you've built up a relationship with a specific dealer and they know your situation, and how genuine you are, it would be different but I think you're expecting a lot.

Good luck though.

pzero · 18 Feb 2014

Don't overlook the GTS in your deliberations.
Early ones might just be creeping into your budget.

Newbie needs help! Buying 997 ,advice please

koevoet

New member

Slayer

Estoril

T8

Super Moderator

MJA911

Singapore

koevoet

New member

911UK

Administrator

T8

Super Moderator

koevoet

New member

Andy_Ran

Monza

John H

Nurburgring

koevoet

New member

MJA911

Singapore

koevoet

New member

T8

Super Moderator

pzero

Moderator

Similar threads

Latest posts

New Threads

Porsche Model Range

Porsche 911

Porsche Hypercars

Other Current Porsche Model

Porsche Legacy Models

Forum statistics