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PeterS
Fuji


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 9231
Location: Solihull

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: My blue C2 964 rebuild thread Reply with quote

I've bought a baltic blue 964 nicely run in with 159,000 miles.

It has just been serviced by NiceExcellence and gone in to have a noisy tappet sorted and oil leaks sorted.

The car is oozing oil from every hole.

I have taken it to several indys for opinions and quotes, and to see where I should get it fixed.

My local indy is a chap called Martin Brown next to Shirleys Garage in Meriden, who I called on first. The problem is, being a one man band, it will take longer.

I also tried RSR Autotech in Bromsgrove on recommendation by Clinchy, and finally settled on Zentrum in Nottingham, recommended Big 'Un, and there is a nice thread on here of his rebuild. Cunno and Mistercorn also confirmed they were decent, and my car was booked in for 30 July, scheduled for 2 weeks.

On an early morning breakfast run on Sunday morning we passed a 4x4 driver who recognised the car, and had been negotiating to buy it.

He said that there was one chap who is the undisputed king of building 964s, a bloke called Martin, in Meriden!

So after a further chat with Martin I have decided it is he who will be doing the job. There will be a few mods and updates on the way too, to make it a bit more special.

It will take longer than Zentrum, (looking at a month) and possibly cost more, but as he is my local indy and has done work for me before, that's the choice I have made.

As a side-note, whilst on the breakfast run with Sausage and Adam2712, my wife commented that you dont get the "kick in the back" with the 964 that you do with the 996. Lets just wait and see!

I will be posting updates and pics as we go.
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Last edited by PeterS on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 6187



PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumb

Pop Corn
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2007 997.1 GT3
2017 F87 M2
 
  
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5801
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with the rebuild and I'll be watching out for your posts Pop Corn
 
  
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Tony 991S
Imola


Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Posts: 820



PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apw2007 wrote:
Good luck with the rebuild and I'll be watching out for your posts Pop Corn


+1 Thumb
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PeterS
Fuji


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 9231
Location: Solihull

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't posted on this as my indie is busy and have been waiting for work to commence.

However last week it was engine out, and we first found the true state of things.

It has been well and truly bodged on the past.

However upon stripping the news is even worse.

3 barrel studs were broken, the rocker shaft bolt had been repaired by being welded(!) a far greater job then just replacing the bolt.

The cam/ rocker carrier was loose and it has damaged the camshaft (or housing, the phone call became a blur!)

The crank bearings are on their last fragments plus a load of other stuff.

I am visiting it in intensive care tomorrow, when I will know more.
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 6187



PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised ... And yet you managed to do Le Mans Classic in this car I think? Lucky nothing went wrong on that trip

Sorry to hear so much work is required - at least once it's sorted you'll have yourself one blinder of a motor!
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PeterS
Fuji


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 9231
Location: Solihull

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, 1000 miles, a bit of smoke out the back (well, a big bit!, but kept topping it up) and drove it round a bit afterwards too, a bit of daily use, plus driving it round various places for opinions.

It had a noise that sounded like a noisy tappet, but that was supposed to have been sorted before I bought it.

No wonder adjusting the tappet didn't sort it. I will know more when I see it tomorrow.

Loads of other brackets / bolts / bits bodged too, so this is just a continuation on a theme.

It will be sorted though.
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Porsche964FP
Trainee


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92



PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeterS wrote:
I haven't posted on this as my indie is busy and have been waiting for work to commence.

However last week it was engine out, and we first found the true state of things.

It has been well and truly bodged on the past.

However upon stripping the news is even worse.

3 barrel studs were broken, the rocker shaft bolt had been repaired by being welded(!) a far greater job then just replacing the bolt.

The cam/ rocker carrier was loose and it has damaged the camshaft (or housing, the phone call became a blur!)

The crank bearings are on their last fragments plus a load of other stuff.

I am visiting it in intensive care tomorrow, when I will know more.


Wow that is quite a bit of damage to rectify - I hope you got the car for cheap... Did you do a PPI?

So what are you thinking - standard full rebuild with cup cams (since your cam is damaged) and a remap?

What condition are the barrels, pistons and con rods? Hopefully no damage to the crank shaft otherwise you're really into serious ££££!
 
  
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ras62
Montreal


Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 607
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not the end of the world as you would have replaced the head studs anyway and a good replacement cam carrier will be fairly cheap I would think. So long as the Piston/Cylinders and the crank are serviceable then it will be a straight rebuild with the few extra's eluded to earlier. It will certainly give the wife a shove in the back when its done! thumbsup
 
  
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PeterS
Fuji


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 9231
Location: Solihull

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is slight scoring, he is saying just rings is borderline but new pistons may be required.

I. Will look for myself tomorrow.

In reality I know it's going to be new pistons, but then you always think..... Hey 3.8?

I'll know more in a day or so.

All those going to the Midlands Meet will get the news hot off the press as I'm going straight there afterwards.
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Gazc2
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 1666
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always stick a 993 lump in it Smile
 
  
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clinchy993
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 6788



PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gary.donald wrote:
You could always stick a 993 lump in it Smile


The way to go Grin
 
  
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ras62
Montreal


Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 607
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why a 993 engine Question As for 3.8 it is a whole lot of cash for little benefit.
 
  
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Porsche964FP
Trainee


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92



PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ras62 wrote:
Why a 993 engine ? As for 3.8 it is a whole lot of cash for little benefit.


993 engine - cheaper than a rebuild. Has been done to great effect. Although it's another gamble on another engine. The car will no longer have matching numbers.

3.8 - torque values are higher. Which depending on preference can be preferable. If the OP needs new barrels and pistons the price jump between 3.6 and 3.8 is worth considering.

I personally would not consider 're-skimming' cams - I would replace. If the OP sticks with the intake manifold he has I would consider cup cams and a remap.

Possibly upgrade (if early 964) to the plastic manifold and consider a HotFilm/ MAF conversion.

Besides all these possible decisions are only worth considering once the full diagnosis is complete and the budget is considered...

Last edited by Porsche964FP on Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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Waz
Estoril


Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 3502
Location: Sutton coldfield


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gary.donald wrote:
You could always stick a 993 lump in it Smile



And then bolt a turbo on it before you stick back in Smile
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2004 3.6 996 C4S cab in The fast black
Cayenne turbo S in matching black 600bhp
 
  
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ras62
Montreal


Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 607
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porsche964FP wrote:
ras62 wrote:
Why a 993 engine ? As for 3.8 it is a whole lot of cash for little benefit.


993 engine - cheaper than a rebuild. Has been done to great effect. Although it's another gamble on another engine. The car will no longer have matching numbers.

3.8 - torque values are higher. Which depending on preference can be preferable. If the OP needs new barrels and pistons the price jump between 3.6 and 3.8 is worth considering.

I personally would not consider 're-skimming' cams - I would replace. If the OP sticks with the intake manifold he has I would consider cup cams and a remap.

Possibly upgrade (if early 964) to the plastic manifold and consider a HotFilm/ MAF conversion.

Besides all these possible decisions are only worth considering once the full diagnosis is complete and the budget is considered...


I dont see any sense in putting another old engine in, who knows what condition it is in and loose originality? I dont understand the great effect comment, it is virtually the same engine, what am I missing?
If barrels are shot then 3.8 could be considered but I dont think you would notice any difference over a well sorted 3.6 The urban myth seems alive and well.
 
  
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sparky1pq
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 291
Location: North West

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not good news but at least you know where you stand and you know it will be sorted.

Hope your wife is understanding! lock
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Porsche964FP
Trainee


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92



PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ras62 wrote:

I dont see any sense in putting another old engine in, who knows what condition it is in and loose originality?


993 Engine - Absolutely, as aforementioned - it can be a gamble. However if one does find one from a reputable specialist, where all the history etc is known - it may (and has for some) be viable.

As for the loss of originality - very true.

However it's a cheaper alternative for those with a tighter budget. Thus the option is worth considering.

ras62 wrote:

I dont understand the great effect comment, it is virtually the same engine, what am I missing?


The 993 engine is a more refined and reliable engine. The Varioram intake system is very effective. 993 engines also don't need valve adjustments as they have hydraulic lifters that self adjust.

ras62 wrote:

If barrels are shot then 3.8 could be considered but I dont think you would notice any difference over a well sorted 3.6 The urban myth seems alive and well.



3.8 - With all due respect, calling the difference between 3.6 and 3.8 a myth is unfounded. There are several very reputable sources that prove otherwise - documented. As said, there are torque increases to be had, that are noticeable - which may be preferable
 
  
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ras62
Montreal


Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 607
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank, the 993 is a fine engine but a better engine? Chase power and tell me hydraulic cams are a great idea. Much better to keep the original motor for so many reasons in a 964.
Ahh the 3.8. Well let me put it this way, you are correct, you should see more torque. However if you believe the extra 150cc of cubic capacity will make a noticeable difference over and above the 3600cc already there then I think you will be sorely disappointed. It's not rocket science when you look at the numbers. My 3.6 sits quite comfortably against a 3.8L. Rob Thumb
 
  
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Porsche964FP
Trainee


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92



PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ras62 wrote:
Frank, the 993 is a fine engine but a better engine? Chase power and tell me hydraulic cams are a great idea. Much better to keep the original motor for so many reasons in a 964.


Never said the 993 engine was 'better' - simply that there are logical reasons why one would decide on a 993 engine. Mainly cost.

The reason I stated the hydraulic lifters was to address your statement that the engines were 'virtually the same'. If we're talking power - that's a different point.

I agree keeping a 964 engine would in my mind be preferable. But again I was stating a 993 engine as a cost effective option - should budgets be tight.

ras62 wrote:

However if you believe the extra 150cc of cubic capacity will make a noticeable difference over and above the 3600cc already there then I think you will be sorely disappointed. It's not rocket science when you look at the numbers.


Thank you for pointing out that it's not rocket science - true it isn't.
 
  
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