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GT4
Nordschleife
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumb

... just make sure you follow the manual and keep topped up with 0w40 Wink
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazhart wrote:
Yes it is getting out of hand and I also must apologise for mistakenly posting a response on the wrong web site (in my defence just rushing to answer things while very very busy all the time at work - think I did that at home after work - my mistake - sorry.

Baz


Thank you for you apology, and thank you for the apology on PH too.

I don't have a PH account (although I read the Porsche and Ferrari sections avidly, to be honest PH is all a bit too angry for me).

So this will have to be your acknowledgement for both here.
 
  
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wizard993
Donnington
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Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:
bazhart wrote:
Yes it is getting out of hand and I also must apologise for mistakenly posting a response on the wrong web site (in my defence just rushing to answer things while very very busy all the time at work - think I did that at home after work - my mistake - sorry.

Baz


Thank you for you apology, and thank you for the apology on PH too.

I don't have a PH account (although I read the Porsche and Ferrari sections avidly, to be honest PH is all a bit too angry for me).

So this will have to be your acknowledgement for both here.


Lets hope BAZ never slings/shoehorns a 944 engine into the back of a 911.....by mistake Wink

hmmmm maybe not a bad idea(no IMS failure worries) Question
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Gibbo205
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there

GT4 thanks for those answers, I shall stick with Mobil1 0W-40 then but I shall keep changing every 5000 miles. Smile


Some questions for Baz / Hartech.

1. Do you supply the lower temp thermostat, how much for the part please and how much for you to supply and fit?
2. Out of curiosity how much would you charge to change the IMS/Seal to your part that does not fail?
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Chubby
Silverstone


Joined: 18 May 2011
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Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the logic behind fresh oil every 5k miles? Agreed that every 20k miles as per the service schedule seems too long, but why not every 10k miles? Why simply not follow Porsche's recommendation of 20k?

Does this interim oil change also include replacing the Oil filter or is emptying the oil and replacing with fresh oil all that is required? Also, is this something you all typically do yourselves, or is it something you get done for you.
 
  
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wizard993
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
What is the logic behind fresh oil every 5k miles? Agreed that every 20k miles as per the service schedule seems too long, but why not every 10k miles? Why simply not follow Porsche's recommendation of 20k?

Does this interim oil change also include replacing the Oil filter or is emptying the oil and replacing with fresh oil all that is required? Also, is this something you all typically do yourselves, or is it something you get done for you.


The fresher/quality the oil the less chance of the IMS bearing chucking it and leading to a big engine failure

Oil and filter is £160 vs £4k for strip and rebuild. Look on it as a bit like a basic insurance policy.
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Chubby
Silverstone


Joined: 18 May 2011
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Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wizard993 wrote:
Chubby wrote:
What is the logic behind fresh oil every 5k miles? Agreed that every 20k miles as per the service schedule seems too long, but why not every 10k miles? Why simply not follow Porsche's recommendation of 20k?

Does this interim oil change also include replacing the Oil filter or is emptying the oil and replacing with fresh oil all that is required? Also, is this something you all typically do yourselves, or is it something you get done for you.


The fresher/quality the oil the less chance of the IMS bearing chucking it and leading to a big engine failure

Oil and filter is £160 vs £4k for strip and rebuild. Look on it as a bit like a basic insurance policy.


Would the Porsche Used Warranty cover the IMS bearing failing, or is this a wear and tear item?
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All these things depend how you drive.

I personally think 20k miles and 2 years is insanity.

I change mine annually, but then that is barely 2.5k miles between changes.

IF you track it every weekend (or other high load activities), then every 5k miles or possibly even more often is advantageous (filter too).

The filter cost peanuts next to the cost of decent oil.
 
  
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Gibbo205
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
What is the logic behind fresh oil every 5k miles? Agreed that every 20k miles as per the service schedule seems too long, but why not every 10k miles? Why simply not follow Porsche's recommendation of 20k?

Does this interim oil change also include replacing the Oil filter or is emptying the oil and replacing with fresh oil all that is required? Also, is this something you all typically do yourselves, or is it something you get done for you.


I change both filter and oil, its basically cheaper than a possible engine rebuild.
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GT4
Nordschleife
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
wizard993 wrote:
Chubby wrote:
What is the logic behind fresh oil every 5k miles? Agreed that every 20k miles as per the service schedule seems too long, but why not every 10k miles? Why simply not follow Porsche's recommendation of 20k?

Does this interim oil change also include replacing the Oil filter or is emptying the oil and replacing with fresh oil all that is required? Also, is this something you all typically do yourselves, or is it something you get done for you.


The fresher/quality the oil the less chance of the IMS bearing chucking it and leading to a big engine failure

Oil and filter is £160 vs £4k for strip and rebuild. Look on it as a bit like a basic insurance policy.


Would the Porsche Used Warranty cover the IMS bearing failing, or is this a wear and tear item?


Yes, as its failure will only makes itself evident in a failure sense (outside of some fortuitous early tear-down) with the extinction of your engine.

It either works, gets by or (fairly imminently after) expires.
 
  
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Tony 991S
Imola


Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Posts: 819



PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:


Thank goodness, someone who actually reads before writing.

If only everyone actually read what someone else wrote, rather than just imagined what all those letters mean, before getting on their soapbox with a response of hyperbole and bile, the forums would be a lot saner place.


So can you tell me what 'hands on' experience you have with Porsche engines? or is it just what you've read on the internet Question
 
  
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Chubby
Silverstone


Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 134
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:
Chubby wrote:
wizard993 wrote:
Chubby wrote:
What is the logic behind fresh oil every 5k miles? Agreed that every 20k miles as per the service schedule seems too long, but why not every 10k miles? Why simply not follow Porsche's recommendation of 20k?

Does this interim oil change also include replacing the Oil filter or is emptying the oil and replacing with fresh oil all that is required? Also, is this something you all typically do yourselves, or is it something you get done for you.


The fresher/quality the oil the less chance of the IMS bearing chucking it and leading to a big engine failure

Oil and filter is £160 vs £4k for strip and rebuild. Look on it as a bit like a basic insurance policy.




Would the Porsche Used Warranty cover the IMS bearing failing, or is this a wear and tear item?


Yes, as its failure will only makes itself evident in a failure sense (outside of some fortuitous early tear-down) with the extinction of your engine.

It either works, gets by or (fairly imminently after) expires.


thumbsup
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rimmer wrote:
GT4 wrote:


Thank goodness, someone who actually reads before writing.

If only everyone actually read what someone else wrote, rather than just imagined what all those letters mean, before getting on their soapbox with a response of hyperbole and bile, the forums would be a lot saner place.


So can you tell me what 'hands on' experience you have with Porsche engines? or is it just what you've read on the internet Question


Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to wear a tie to this interview.

If you PM me you email address I can send you my CV.

Any way, if you strip out all the arguments, poor quality jokes, filth, test-drive reviews, model discussions, event planning/attending and post match anaysis, of my 7,877 posts, a few are based on "hands-on" stuff.

Why not read my FAQs, how-to's and DIY guides.

PS - when I was born I knew nothing, I know what I know now from everyone else (analysis) combined with understanding and creativity (synthesis).

The latter is only possible with experience.

Most of what I know "theretically" of Porsches is actually from books and published technical manuals (so they are peer reviewed), the biggest problem with the internet is myth, hearsay and bullsh1t - a fatal mix when combined with fear and conceit.

I guess I should take it as some sort of back-handed complement that Baz accused me or working for Porsche on the PH thread!

Last edited by GT4 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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bazhart
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Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 947
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I must try and leave this alone - but me logic is obviously different [color=blue]to most everyone else - as follows. My responses in blue[/color]

In all fairness from what I've read the issue seems to have been a bit confused. I read GT4s original post as an observation of the effect of oil grade and general car usage rather than a criticism of any particular part of the engine.

The title gives the clue to this being wrong.
)

0w40, its thin and quick (when cold), everything else is the same. The IMS bearing is a red-herring, the bearing is Irrespective of the success of any bearing cures, do you have any views on the causes (and partial oil grade mitigation) as discussed on post one?

No because it is irrelevant to the title and the bearing is the whole story.

Are you saying all the hydraulic systems listed are agnostic to oil grade? intentionally sealed, and if it still is, then the oil Isn't the answer for us laymen to simply follow what Porsche themselves tell us to do? Any engine is a collaboration of moving parts (some big, some small) that interact to perform the whole function, who can say what seemingly small change in one area can do in another? That is the stuff for experts. grade is irrelveant.

Porsche though will tell you to fit a new engine with the same design - if yours fails - at huge cost - still think doing what Porsche suggest is the answer?

Some questions for Baz / Hartech.

1. Do you supply the lower temp thermostat, how much for the part please and how much for you to supply and fit?

Yes £60 + p&p + Vat supply. Supply and fit depends on other factors and we prefer to check over the other parts of the cooling system first in case they are faulty and a resulting problem is blamed on us fitting the thermostat.Best phone Grant on 1204 302809

2.

Out of curiosity how much would you charge to change the IMS/Seal to your part that does not fail?

I am reluctant to do this and in view of how few actually fail - it seems better to me to wait and see if yours is OK and meanwhile take up some protection in case it does. Statistically this will overall save most people money._________________

I personally think 20k miles and 2 years is insanity.

I change mine annually, but then that is barely 2.5k miles between changes.

IF you track it every weekend (or other high load activities), then every 5k miles or possibly even more often is advantageous (filter too).

The filter cost peanuts next to the cost of decent oil.

So oddly what Porsche recomend is suddenly very wrong even though they are apparently completely right about the oil grade. You cannot use porsche's own poswition to defend one argument aqnd then condemn their ability to give correct advice for something else you decide is wrong.Baz
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Tony 991S
Imola


Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Posts: 819



PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:
Rimmer wrote:
GT4 wrote:


Thank goodness, someone who actually reads before writing.

If only everyone actually read what someone else wrote, rather than just imagined what all those letters mean, before getting on their soapbox with a response of hyperbole and bile, the forums would be a lot saner place.


So can you tell me what 'hands on' experience you have with Porsche engines? or is it just what you've read on the internet Question


Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to wear a tie to this interview.


Err, I only asked a civil question in responce to your above post
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazhart wrote:
Sorry I must try and leave this alone - but me logic is obviously different [color=blue]to most everyone else - as follows. My responses in blue[/color]

In all fairness from what I've read the issue seems to have been a bit confused. I read GT4s original post as an observation of the effect of oil grade and general car usage rather than a criticism of any particular part of the engine.

The title gives the clue to this being wrong.
)

0w40, its thin and quick (when cold), everything else is the same. The IMS bearing is a red-herring, the bearing is Irrespective of the success of any bearing cures, do you have any views on the causes (and partial oil grade mitigation) as discussed on post one?

No because it is irrelevant to the title and the bearing is the whole story.

Are you saying all the hydraulic systems listed are agnostic to oil grade? intentionally sealed, and if it still is, then the oil Isn't the answer for us laymen to simply follow what Porsche themselves tell us to do? Any engine is a collaboration of moving parts (some big, some small) that interact to perform the whole function, who can say what seemingly small change in one area can do in another? That is the stuff for experts. grade is irrelveant.

Porsche though will tell you to fit a new engine with the same design - if yours fails - at huge cost - still think doing what Porsche suggest is the answer?

Some questions for Baz / Hartech.

1. Do you supply the lower temp thermostat, how much for the part please and how much for you to supply and fit?

Yes £60 + p&p + Vat supply. Supply and fit depends on other factors and we prefer to check over the other parts of the cooling system first in case they are faulty and a resulting problem is blamed on us fitting the thermostat.Best phone Grant on 1204 302809

2.

Out of curiosity how much would you charge to change the IMS/Seal to your part that does not fail?

I am reluctant to do this and in view of how few actually fail - it seems better to me to wait and see if yours is OK and meanwhile take up some protection in case it does. Statistically this will overall save most people money._________________

I personally think 20k miles and 2 years is insanity.

I change mine annually, but then that is barely 2.5k miles between changes.

IF you track it every weekend (or other high load activities), then every 5k miles or possibly even more often is advantageous (filter too).

The filter cost peanuts next to the cost of decent oil.

So oddly what Porsche recomend is suddenly very wrong even though they are apparently completely right about the oil grade. You cannot use porsche's own poswition to defend one argument aqnd then condemn their ability to give correct advice for something else you decide is wrong.Baz


As for trying to leave this alone, please try harder.

I'm glad you managed to get the advert in, though.

I am not going against Porsche advice, my car is on annual servicing.

I am not going against Porsche's advice ref: racing and high load use (RTFM).

I do not disagree with the possible maximum duration between services if the the car is not stressed, but I know how I drive and I would therefore defer to Porsche's alternative advice regarding interim servicing and maintenance for racing and high load use.

To be fair, there are many things I do for reasons of possible prevention or contingency. It's all insurance.

Much like a warranty or Hartech Maintenance plan, much like a better engineered bearing, much like a lower temp thermostat.

You pays your money and makes your choice.

There is no shame in belt and braces (except perhaps literally).

In any case, as I don't work for Porsche I can make my own mind up by collecting facts and applying experience.

So when I use the best oil for my engine that just happens to be what Porsche also advise, does not make me Porsche zombie.
 
  
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wizard993
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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1966 Singer Gazelle

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know where a mint 6 year-old cayman is sitting with 50k miles. It had two services during that time. The engine is in bits.

Doing an oil and filter every 5k certainly won't do an engine any harm.

I am not saying you MUST to avoid IMS/bearing failures(some will still fail). Its a personal choice but consider this, I have had many Porsches but not ONE has ever given me any engine related issues. Is it because I do the quality oil and filters so often and take great care(use <3k rpm) during the engine warm-up phase(don't know).
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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rimmer wrote:
GT4 wrote:
Rimmer wrote:
GT4 wrote:


Thank goodness, someone who actually reads before writing.

If only everyone actually read what someone else wrote, rather than just imagined what all those letters mean, before getting on their soapbox with a response of hyperbole and bile, the forums would be a lot saner place.


So can you tell me what 'hands on' experience you have with Porsche engines? or is it just what you've read on the internet Question


Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to wear a tie to this interview.


Err, I only asked a civil question in responce to your above post


Well, civil or not, the content of my reply was more important.

And the offer is still there if you still want my engineering, scientific, motoring or other resume.
 
  
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Gibbo205
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 332



PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazhart wrote:
1. Do you supply the lower temp thermostat, how much for the part please and how much for you to supply and fit?

Yes £60 + p&p + Vat supply. Supply and fit depends on other factors and we prefer to check over the other parts of the cooling system first in case they are faulty and a resulting problem is blamed on us fitting the thermostat.Best phone Grant on 1204 302809



Baz

1. Does your thermostat come in Porsche original housing like the autofarm one?

2. I can assure you my cooling system is spot on, all new rads, hoses and complete flush as I had it done about a month ago, so if you can give me a price fitted please or PM me the price would be appreciated.

3. Lastly, GT4 has answered he still believes 0W-40 is the best choice for my engine, I'd still be interested to hear your view on this, if you agree or if you'd use a 5W-40 instead and if so why please? This is not to cause an argument but GT4 has given his argument as to why he recommends 0W-40 and I'd be interested to see if you agree or why you think a 5W-40 is better.

4. ILSAC oil ratings, am I right in thinking Mobil1 is GF4 rated and that some Motul have the superior GF5 rating? Is GF5 certified/approved oils better than GF4 oils in our engines?
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wizard993
Donnington
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Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have switched completely to the Total Porsche Approved Oil. Indications are that it keeps the 996/997.1 engine slightly cooler. I also use the GT2/turbo thermostat on the 997.1. It runs a shade cooler now. Each week/fortnight I scoop out front rad debris(next doors 7 year-old helps...errr well he often does it, as his small arms and fingers are ideal for getting to the rads. He is happy with a mars bar as his reward: thumb:

Budget(£350-£400) + VAT supplied and fitted for the thermo upgrade at any decent Indy(inc coolant).
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