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knightrider
Monza


Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 159



PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baz Hartech vs gt4 for the world heavyweight unification title.

I watched the haye klistcho fight on the weekend but this 911uk title bout between the forum big boys is both more interesting and more actionpacked!

For what it's worth I'm with gt4 on this one, thinner oil is better for cold engine start ups plus Porsche have it as their recommended oil - now Porsche know best surely Wink
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GT4
Nordschleife
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fairness, I find it hard to argue logically with a design engineer who thinks water turns to air when it boils Confused :

hartech wrote:

JM1962 wrote:
Baz
Not wishing to be picky, but when the coolant boils it forms steam bubbles not air bubbles.

Thanks for that JM1962 I suppose it is only fair for you to point out that my description was not 100% accurate although I don't think it adds anything to understanding the events or causes I was describing.

In my defence - unfortunately if I explained all the engine problems on here in the correct technical way without any background or analogies that enabled less well qualified people to follow the salient points - fewer people would benefit (and to be fair I have not noticed any other contributor covering anything like the technical issues I try to convey to the public to empower them to understand them if they need to or help them make informed choices to protect their interests). I try to find a balance between simplifying things and being correct so the majority benefit from being able to understand the issue - but this is always dangerous - as your posting demonstrates.

For your benefit (if I remember my schooling of 40 years ago correctly)
Coolant behaves like water and as such has different states from frozen to gas and in the middle steam. There are two types of steam - vapour and superheated steam (which is a gas).

Vapour is difficult to explain because it has lower density than liquid and hence increased volume. The problem is that increased volume of coolant (as steam bubbles) pushes coolant out of the expansion cap - so next time after it cools there is less coolant left inside and it doesn't neccessarily reach the same running pressure hence can boil/release steam bubbles/air bubbles whatever at a lower temperature than before and decrease the cooling potential at the source - the cylinder wall.

Fourty years ago we did not study atomic science much or molecular thoeory - but nowadays it is built into the education system from a very early age - a much better way of dealing with such issues.

If you understand this better than me I would be interested to learn exactly what steam vapour consists of. You are right it is not "air" bubbles because steam as a vapour is tiny droplets of water (or coolant) which I think must then be mixed in with with a gas (since the density reduces). But the gas will not be air because it has been formed from H2O - so is I suppose some form of a mixture of Oxygen and Hydrogen (whereas air is mainly Nitrogen - 78%).

It would be interesting to have this clarified but - in terms of helping readers understand the issues so they can decide for themseves what to do in the future to protect their interests or what questions to ask of their chosen repairer before commiting a rebuild or investigation somewhere that has limited options - I don't think whatever this gas is - makes any practical difference.


Read the rest here, it actually gets worse:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=400915&r=16679193&hm=191711&mid=191711#16679193
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very classy Baz, bad-mouthing me on PH now?

http://mobile.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1024393&mid=159678&nmt=Want+to+know+what+engine%2FIMS+is+in+your+997%2E1%3F

If you have anything to say to me you can say it here.

Or are you worried there are fewer fan boys on 911UK?

Anyone would think you didn't want to protect the IMS, or worse you had an ulterior motive to its demise, like selling replacement bearing kits Question
 
  
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Martian
Sepang


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 2937
Location: Bury St. Edmunds

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Asda own brand 20W/50 in my Turbo with no problems whatsoever, and it's only £4.99 for 5 litres.........

These Mezger engines are so reliable though! Very Happy
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil or Very Mad

Bullet-proof residuals, bullet-proof engine reliability, bullet-quick performance and now cheap servicing.

Where do you GT1-block boys get off from rubbing it in Sad
 
  
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MCFastybloke
Trainee


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 91



PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a good debate,some very knowledgable individuals posting information of interest to us all,pls dont turn it into a ***** fight,there is nothing of benefit in that for those of us who are recent owners
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bazhart
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Joined: 20 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is getting out of hand and I also must apologise for mistakenly posting a response on the wrong web site (in my defence just rushing to answer things while very very busy all the time at work - think I did that at home after work - my mistake - sorry.

What worries me is that most of the readers really don't know enough about engineering to judge who is right and who is wrong and the arguments we put forward are often over their heads. I worry about this – not over the “who is right or wrong” (personally I couldn’t care less about what others think of me) but because it is them that may have to make a value judgement one day and not know whom to believe when there seem to be two opposing views of the same issue – and they could get it all wrong.

I don't have time to respond in detail any more - sorry - I wish I could - but the problem is - even if I dissected each and every statement and put the right answer to it – recent history suggests that GT4 would just cloud his response with a lot of other irrelevant facts (in themselves probably reasonably accurate) but in no way proving his answers are right (except by reference to some technical point - not practical results) and the readers won't know what to make of it.

In Politics the best politicians always answer difficult questions by relating a lot of academic facts that the public would agree with (but actually don't answer the question) and then if you are lucky) throw in a brief response half answering the question they were put and carry on with irrelevant issues - luring the public into finding they agree with almost everything they said - although they never actually answered the question with a bit of metal. GT4 - go into politics - you would be brilliant.

I am not good at politics and technically you could break down this problem into tribology, manufacturing, materials specification, dynamics of machines, stresses and strains, metal fatigue etc etc and fill a book with lots of specialists answers on the whole subject - without anyone actually putting their finger on the simple and salient issues.

So I am going to withdraw from future responses on this one as I don't think we are helping anyone to be better informed any more.

I must just make the following points.

You say you protect your IMS bearing by waiting for it to fully lubricate yet also state that Porsche never intended it to be oil lubricated - bit of a nonsense logic there for anyone to read.

You also suggest my posting is just to sell our IMS kit - but we don't retail it - we just fit it as an option to engines we rebuild - with no failures. you still have not answered the simple "real issue" that removing the seal from the same parts you criticise at length renders the system acceptably reliable - how is that possible if all the other problems you state are contributory factors still exist?.

For those confused about all the technical posting content - let me just say that the bearing manufacturer recommended no seal and we think it is the cause of the problem and that removing it has proven us right. There are paragraphs of postings from GT4 about all sorts of other technical problems with the IMS system (but not mentioning the seal) while we find simply removing it totally solves the problem. Readers should ask - what then is relevant to the issue?

Finally - there are some people able to regurgitate a lot of technical stuff without having ever designed or made anything successful (which is hundreds of times more difficult) and they tend to give themselves away by regurgitating the same stuff while never actually finding the simple answer or proving it - all just theoretical answers.

There are others who have a long record of successfully actually designing real and tangible things and proving they work and also re-designing problems in other engines and proving they could find the problem and fix it. Sometimes it is difficult to explain where such people get their inspirations from - but they if they are good at it they usually have a long history of similar success.

I hope I am too modest to use this to reveal my full history - but - in the context of this particular argument - can I just cover a very small part of it - as follows. Designed the production machinery that revolutionised the manufacture of the Trent titanium fan blades for Rolls Royce. Designed several complete engines (including transmissions, manufactured them and won numerous races with them against full blown largely Japanese multinationals manufacturers (best result of which 3rd in the French GP), numerous International and National class race wins and British Championships. Solving technical problems for Ducati, Suzuki, and Norton. Re-designing racing parts later adopted by main stream engine manufacturers. Designing and building the prototype of Barry Sheen's 650cc square four racer. Writing a technical manual on designing with composites for "metal engineers" and I could go on and on.

What this means is that - when there is a conflict of explanations or solutions - there are some people who can prove they have and can come up with the right answers again and again and others who can just hide behind technical jargon and cloud the issues - but who have never proven that their understanding of things works because they have never made anything significant.

Regardless of whom non technical people can believe - some people just have the right answers and some just talk a good talk.

Moving on to these engines and oil etc - the very first time I opened one up (before there was any general history of failures) I made two significant statements to my workforce. I said whoever designed the IMS bearing part should be sacked (and would have been if I had employed him) and that the open deck cylinder design would result in premature ovaility. I predicted that they would be less reliable than previous examples and that we should get in early to finding solutions and setting up to rebuild and repair them because the numbers would increase exponentially - and that was absolutely right and we (and our customers) are benefitting from the outcome.

At that time I didn't yet realise that there were also a few other errors in design (IMHO) like the temperature differential between the cylinders and cylinder head etc (that emerged as problems later) but each time a new problem has occurred - we have quickly (and with comparatively limited resources compared to Porsche) come up with the right answer first time and provided excellent cost effective solutions (later adopted by Porsche in their Gen 2 engines).

Readers are free to decide whose interpretation of the problems of oil and the cause of IMS failures they should listen to - I really don't care as long as both sides of the argument are presented for consideration.

I didn't want to make this a personal thing and regret it has become embittered - sorry everyone - I just cannot ignore it when advice is trotted out by anyone presenting themselves as experts when it is clear to me they are obviously mistaken and the consequence misleads the public who are trying to make sense of the issues.

Sorry GT4 - unlike you - I have given good opinion of most of your previous postings (I believe in credit where it is due) and I realise that by disagreeing with you in public - you are bound to need to defend your reputation by cranking up the same misleading and irrelevant nonsense that I responded to in the first place.

All engines wear and some more quickly than others. When they do clearances increase and thicker oil is better than the original thin oil that may well have been OK when it was new. Manufacturers do not seem to advise owners of this but racing engines where there is more load and temperature (and similarly greater clearances) do not usually run on thin oil despite all the nonsense about shear power losses of thicker oil.

Because I don't think any further postings will help anyone still undecided whom to believe - this is my last on this posting - so any of you are free to regurgitate anything in technical books or manuals or Porsche literature - if you want to - please just add (for the benefit of readers) what, when and where you used that knowledge and ability to actually prove you can be relied upon as a source of engineering excellence and your success rate at solving problems with Porsche engines (so it can be compared with ours).

Baz
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Tony 991S
Imola


Joined: 27 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm so who's advice would I take.

1/ Baz who repairs 911's day in and day out and who has invested vast sums of cash in solving engine problems.

2/ GT4 a keyboard mechanic? IMO.

No contest as far as I can see
 
  
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anotherGT2
Watkins Glen


Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 2022
Location: Staffordshire

2008 Porsche 997 GT2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rimmer wrote:
Hmm so who's advice would I take.

1/ Baz who repairs 911's day in and day out and who has invested vast sums of cash in solving engine problems.

2/ GT4 a keyboard mechanic? IMO.

No contest as far as I can see



GT4 also fixes keyboards?


In all fairness from what I've read the issue seems to have been a bit confused. I read GT4s original post as an observation of the effect of oil grade and general car usage rather than a criticism of any particular part of the engine.
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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 - go into politics - you would be brilliant.

Thanks, I'll consider it.

I must just make the following points.

You say you protect your IMS bearing by waiting for it to fully lubricate yet also state that Porsche never intended it to be oil lubricated - bit of a nonsense logic there for anyone to read.

Erm, no, I said I'll wait for the ENGINE to become fully lubricated.

For what i can only hope will be the LAST time, all my posts had no intention of discussing bearings at all. This is all about the effect of low oil or different grades of oil in the main engine (hydraulic systems).

You mentioned politic earlier, Margaret Thatcher was brilliant at making the points she wanted to make, irrespective of the question.

NO ONE ASKED ABOUT BEARINGS!!!

To be fair, I completely agree with your work on bearings, and am fully aware of it, but just as I have not touched on RMS seals, I have not touched on IMS seals or any number of other great after-dinner anecdotes.


You also suggest my posting is just to sell our IMS kit - but we don't retail it - we just fit it as an option to engines we rebuild - with no failures. you still have not answered the simple "real issue" that removing the seal from the same parts you criticise at length renders the system acceptably reliable - how is that possible if all the other problems you state are contributory factors still exist?.

I have not criticised (or even discussed) the blinking bearings, the only person talking balls (in a ball-race) is you.
And obviously you don't sell that service of fitting the option? Interesting


For those confused about all the technical posting content - let me just say that the bearing manufacturer recommended no seal and we think it is the cause of the problem and that removing it has proven us right. There are paragraphs of postings from GT4 about all sorts of other technical problems with the IMS system (but not mentioning the seal) while we find simply removing it totally solves the problem. Readers should ask - what then is relevant to the issue?

FINALLY YOU GET IT - yes I made a post that is NOT about seals or bearings. If only we had established that about four pages ago, then you could just have started you OWN thread about seals and bearings.

And guess what, I would agree will every bit of it, but bearings have no bearing on the points MY thread is about.


Finally - there are some people able to regurgitate a lot of technical stuff without having ever designed or made anything successful (which is hundreds of times more difficult) and they tend to give themselves away by regurgitating the same stuff while never actually finding the simple answer or proving it - all just theoretical answers.

Hmm, the same stuff, you find me ANYWHERE else on the internet the issues raised in my original post about all the hydraulic systems and their effects on IMS stresses and I'll buy a bearing kit from you. Stresses which EXCEED the manufacturing tolerances of the bearings. There I said it twice - BEARINGS!

I was originally discussing cause and effect of OIL and IMS stresses- not bearings, you brought up bearings.


There are others who have a long record of successfully actually designing real and tangible things and proving they work and also re-designing problems in other engines and proving they could find the problem and fix it. Sometimes it is difficult to explain where such people get their inspirations from - but they if they are good at it they usually have a long history of similar success.

Oh yes, I've heard of Baz Hart, he's the one who's big in bearings.

I hope I am too modest to use this to reveal my full history - but - in the context of this particular argument - can I just cover a very small part of it - as follows. Designed the production machinery that revolutionised the manufacture of the Trent titanium fan blades for Rolls Royce. Designed several complete engines (including transmissions, manufactured them and won numerous races with them against full blown largely Japanese multinationals manufacturers (best result of which 3rd in the French GP), numerous International and National class race wins and British Championships. Solving technical problems for Ducati, Suzuki, and Norton. Re-designing racing parts later adopted by main stream engine manufacturers. Designing and building the prototype of Barry Sheen's 650cc square four racer. Writing a technical manual on designing with composites for "metal engineers" and I could go on and on.

What this means is that - when there is a conflict of explanations or solutions - there are some people who can prove they have and can come up with the right answers again and again and others who can just hide behind technical jargon and cloud the issues - but who have never proven that their understanding of things works because they have never made anything significant.

Regardless of whom non technical people can believe - some people just have the right answers and some just talk a good talk.

Moving on to these engines and oil etc - the very first time I opened one up (before there was any general history of failures) I made two significant statements to my workforce. I said whoever designed the IMS bearing part should be sacked (and would have been if I had employed him) and that the open deck cylinder design would result in premature ovaility. I predicted that they would be less reliable than previous examples and that we should get in early to finding solutions and setting up to rebuild and repair them because the numbers would increase exponentially - and that was absolutely right and we (and our customers) are benefitting from the outcome.

At that time I didn't yet realise that there were also a few other errors in design (IMHO) like the temperature differential between the cylinders and cylinder head etc (that emerged as problems later) but each time a new problem has occurred - we have quickly (and with comparatively limited resources compared to Porsche) come up with the right answer first time and provided excellent cost effective solutions (later adopted by Porsche in their Gen 2 engines).


[Cue music to "Our Tune" with Simon Bates]

Readers are free to decide whose interpretation of the problems of oil and the cause of IMS failures they should listen to - I really don't care as long as both sides of the argument are presented for consideration.

There is no argument, you bearings bloody briliant, the point of this thread was to discuss the not so brilliant use of THICK oils.

I didn't want to make this a personal thing and regret it has become embittered - sorry everyone - I just cannot ignore it when advice is trotted out by anyone presenting themselves as experts when it is clear to me they are obviously mistaken and the consequence misleads the public who are trying to make sense of the issues.

Sorry GT4 - unlike you - I have given good opinion of most of your previous postings (I believe in credit where it is due) and I realise that by disagreeing with you in public - you are bound to need to defend your reputation by cranking up the same misleading and irrelevant nonsense that I responded to in the first place.

I stand by all the "nonsense" in my first post, and until you contribute anything useful ref: OIL GRADE vs IMS STRESSES, then you needed come back here.

All engines wear and some more quickly than others. When they do clearances increase and thicker oil is better than the original thin oil that may well have been OK when it was new. Manufacturers do not seem to advise owners of this but racing engines where there is more load and temperature (and similarly greater clearances) do not usually run on thin oil despite all the nonsense about shear power losses of thicker oil.

Because I don't think any further postings will help anyone still undecided whom to believe - this is my last on this posting - so any of you are free to regurgitate anything in technical books or manuals or Porsche literature - if you want to - please just add (for the benefit of readers) what, when and where you used that knowledge and ability to actually prove you can be relied upon as a source of engineering excellence and your success rate at solving problems with Porsche engines (so it can be compared with ours).

Baz

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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rimmer wrote:
Hmm so who's advice would I take.

1/ Baz who repairs 911's day in and day out and who has invested vast sums of cash in solving engine problems.

2/ GT4 a keyboard mechanic? IMO.

No contest as far as I can see


But apparently not researching the effect of OIL GRADE on IMS STRESSES.
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anotherGT2 wrote:

In all fairness from what I've read the issue seems to have been a bit confused. I read GT4s original post as an observation of the effect of oil grade and general car usage rather than a criticism of any particular part of the engine.


WOW!

Thank goodness, someone who actually reads before writing.

If only everyone actually read what someone else wrote, rather than just imagined what all those letters mean, before getting on their soapbox with a response of hyperbole and bile, the forums would be a lot saner place.
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it makes any difference, I'm not burning this just yet:

 
  
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Gibbo205
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there


OK can I ask a simple question and get a relatively simple answer please.


Both of my questions are into relation of preventing the possible risk of an IMS failure and scored bores in my car. I have a 997.1 C2S and the engine has 33,000 miles and there is no visible oil leaks.

My questions are:-

1. What oil grade is best for my engine, taking into account the above, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 or something else?
2. Is the cooler thermostat a worthwhile addition?



I can see GT4's point on a thinner oil when cold will help lubricate things quicker from cold, but at the same time the thinner oil from cold could put more wear on the IMS bearing or thats at least my logical way of looking at it, can I have your feedback on this and why a 5W-40 or 10W-40 may be better for the IMS bearing than say a 0W-40.

Is the thermostat a proven must have, yes or no? Any downfalls to having it?
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
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2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:


If only everyone actually read what someone else wrote, rather than just imagined what all those letters mean, before getting on their soapbox with a response of hyperbole and bile, the forums would be a lot saner place.


True, but the forum would also be less interesting Smile

MC
 
  
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michelin
Indianapolis


Joined: 28 Oct 2010
Posts: 2382
Location: Liverpool

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibbo205 wrote:
Hi there


OK can I ask a simple question and get a relatively simple answer please.


Both of my questions are into relation of preventing the possible risk of an IMS failure and scored bores in my car. I have a 997.1 C2S and the engine has 33,000 miles and there is no visible oil leaks.

My questions are:-

1. What oil grade is best for my engine, taking into account the above, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 or something else?
2. Is the cooler thermostat a worthwhile addition?



I can see GT4's point on a thinner oil when cold will help lubricate things quicker from cold, but at the same time the thinner oil from cold could put more wear on the IMS bearing or thats at least my logical way of looking at it, can I have your feedback on this and why a 5W-40 or 10W-40 may be better for the IMS bearing than say a 0W-40.

Is the thermostat a proven must have, yes or no? Any downfalls to having it?


+1
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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibbo205 wrote:
My questions are:-

1. What oil grade is best for my engine, taking into account the above, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 or something else?
2. Is the cooler thermostat a worthwhile addition?

I can see GT4's point on a thinner oil when cold will help lubricate things quicker from cold, but at the same time the thinner oil from cold could put more wear on the IMS bearing or thats at least my logical way of looking at it, can I have your feedback on this and why a 5W-40 or 10W-40 may be better for the IMS bearing than say a 0W-40.

Is the thermostat a proven must have, yes or no? Any downfalls to having it?


1) 0w40, its thin and quick (when cold), everything else is the same. The IMS bearing is a red-herring, the bearing is intentionally sealed, and if it still is, then the oil grade is irrelveant.

If it isn't, I'd want the thinnest oil with the best chance to penetrate, wash and re-lubricate (after all, pulling the seal and fully opening it is the only true way of sorting it using the original ballraces), so do the next best thing and use the most penetrative oil knoww to man (that's sort of a joke), even Porsche can't keep 0w40 in their pants.

2) Oh yes, forget the combination of bad placement and EU based emissions mandates, drop the temp and get better performance/power AND better reliability. No downsides.

Just as an aside, that first question (in oil grade terms) was EXACTLY what this post was about. Not bearings.

If they are still as Porsche intended, and most should be (certainly they will be early in their lives), then oil grade will make not a jot of difference.

They are isolated from the rest of the engine/sump - ie there is NO intentionally ongoing lubrication to the bearings (for good or bad). They are supposed to be sealed for life.

Last edited by GT4 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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bazhart
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Joined: 20 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The title of the posting is "what really breaks your IMS"

The only thing that we have ever found that does is the bearing failure caused by the inclusion of a seal.

The title is not about oil - that has been included as an exp-lanation of the reasons for the failures - but we have no IMS failures after removing the seal - whatever oil is in use.

In view of this - are we to ignore lengthy technical issues stating there are all sorts of other reasons for the failures of an IMS - or simply report that there is one explanation and proven solution? - what would you do?

Baz
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GT4
Nordschleife
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 30174
Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazhart wrote:
The title of the posting is "what really breaks your IMS"

The only thing that we have ever found that does is the bearing failure caused by the inclusion of a seal.

The title is not about oil - that has been included as an exp-lanation of the reasons for the failures - but we have no IMS failures after removing the seal - whatever oil is in use.

In view of this - are we to ignore lengthy technical issues stating there are all sorts of other reasons for the failures of an IMS - or simply report that there is one explanation and proven solution? - what would you do?

Baz


I tell you what, why not read my first post rather than reply to what you think the title means when viewed through bearing-tinted lenses.

Irrespective of the success of any bearing cures, do you have any views on the causes (and partial oil grade mitigation) as discussed on post one?

Are you saying all the hydraulic systems listed are agnostic to oil grade?

Hydraulic tappets (for valve control from the cams)
Variocam (all models - eg 996 3.4/3.6) hydraulic chain tensioners (for valve timing control, must be in equilibrium to balance IMS)
VariocamPlus (later models - eg 996 3.6) hydraulic cam lobe actuation (for valve range control)
 
  
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Chubby
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Joined: 18 May 2011
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Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The person that can tell the difference between good and bad advice doesn't need advice - I, on the other hand, require lots. Dont know

Isn't the answer for us laymen to simply follow what Porsche themselves tell us to do? Any engine is a collaboration of moving parts (some big, some small) that interact to perform the whole function, who can say what seemingly small change in one area can do in another? That is the stuff for experts.

Surely following what Porsche themselves suggest is the path of least resistance for us less knowledgeable souls? Whereas the other's that understand the engineering fully can tailor their car care accordingly.

There must have been plenty of knackered Porker's about pre-Internet, or was there? When this level and ease of information was unobtainable, people must have followed the direction of Porsche themselves and been OK in doing so, given that 2/3'rds of Porkers ever made are still alive and kicking.

It's often very easy, reading forums like this (which is great btw) to start to over-engineer each and every element, instead of just getting in, warming her up, and then enjoying it.
 
  
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