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wizard993
Donnington
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Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rimmer wrote:
Reading this thread I just hope the new 991 will be more trouble free, but in anycase a decent warranty later on is a must.


Rimmer... err what part of the world does that name come from?
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The Beast
Suzuka


Joined: 28 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JFB I really FEEL your pain. I am the other 'one' who posted a major mechanical failure on the same day as you. I wanted to write to send my condolences to you from someone who is currently looking at a cracked cylinder head and partial / complete engine rebuild.

The car was running fine, and luckily I caught it earlier before it actually did go BANG like your's, but suffice it to say I was concerned from the moment I bought it about the higher running temps, as well as my discovery of coolant loss. I had this looked at by the specialist who called me that afternoon with the terrible news.

I am so far in a somewhat better position than I would be in a couple of months as I am still right under dealer warranty (bought just under a month ago) and I bought the car from what seems like a reputable independent dealer. They immediately sought to assuage my concerns by saying that they would take care of the problem. They have instructed the indie to look further into the car to find out what exactly is the issue.

Their support has been positive so far but I am hoping that they will take the best course of action, which is not just to replace the cylinder but also take further preventative steps inside the engine. This procedure would be more competently performed at Hartech, where they would also replace the crank shaft bearing (not shaft strangely), balance the new cylinder by overhauling the other side, then reinstall it. Whilst in there they would address the issue of the oval cylinders (Gen 1 996) by installing new cylinder supports, as well as new timing chain and all the other unreliable parts.

If the dealer is honourable and takes his responsibilities seriously then I will not only recommend them, I (like you) will also be in a better position to enjoy my car as the various issues with 996's have remedies, and these can be built into the rebuild whilst the engine is open, for the same price as using original parts (ie upgraded bearing and cylinder supports etc).

Either way, I am still stuck up the barrel of a very big and frightening gun as like you I do not have 000's to spend on a rebuild, and if the dealer was to shirk responsibilities I would face legal action to recover my costs.

I hate this, but the outcome could be great. I am concentrating on this, spending lots of time with my lovely little kids (who like me still love Daddy Porsche car notwithstanding) and am focussing all my energies on positive thoughts.

I really send all my very best to you, and I hope for the very best outcome for you. Do let us know when you know anything and we are all rooting for you.

Last edited by The Beast on Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Tony 991S
Imola


Joined: 27 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wizard993 wrote:
Rimmer wrote:
Reading this thread I just hope the new 991 will be more trouble free, but in anycase a decent warranty later on is a must.


Rimmer... err what part of the world does that name come from?


Err, UK (as in my profile)
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berni29
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Rimmer was (is) a character out of a very funny comedy series called Red Dwarf.

It can also have other connotations which are best not thought about.

Berni
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jfb1977
Monza


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 247



PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments guys.

Latest update is that Porsche GB have sent me a very polite and detailed letter, basically telling me that there's no goodwill from them in this situation.

I'm disappointed but not surprised. They didn't have to step up to the plate, they had no legal reason to. They would have just won a loyaly customer for life had they done so. I loved the car so much that after about a week of ownership I actually told my wife that I couldn't see me ever NOT having a 911 on the drive. Given that I'm only 34 and tend to change my cars about every 12 months, that's a lot of 911s to come!!

Now I can't help but think I just want to get the car fixed, back on the road and get shot of it.

My confidence in the brand I've lusted after since I was a kid had all but disappeared.

Anyway, I AM trying to stay positive. I can't do anything until the engine has been stripped, the problem identified and a real quote for the required repairs put on the table. Then I can start chasing people to work out who's paying what.

Part of me is tempted to talk to Hartech, I've heard good things about them, but again, until I know the root cause and have an idea of what's required to fix things I can't do anything.

Just hate the waiting!
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Tony 991S
Imola


Joined: 27 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

berni29 wrote:
Hi

Rimmer was (is) a character out of a very funny comedy series called Red Dwarf.

It can also have other connotations which are best not thought about.

Berni


Yes, I'm nothing like 'that' Rimmer, Floor although I did use his name.
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bazhart
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Joined: 20 May 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give us a call, I am sure we can help and we don't bite.

Baz 01204 302809
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5798
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfb1977 wrote:
Part of me is tempted to talk to Hartech, I've heard good things about them, but again, until I know the root cause and have an idea of what's required to fix things I can't do anything.


It's not going to cost you anything (apart from the cost of the call) and they will at least give you some options.
 
  
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jfb1977
Monza


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 247



PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have spoken to Hartech.

Got more food for thought now.

Watch this space...
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7488
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rimmer"]
berni29 wrote:
Hi

Rimmer was (is) a character out of a very funny comedy series called Red Dwarf.

It can also have other connotations which are best not thought about.

Berni


Would be great as a driver though, I wonder how much 'hard light' weighs?

MC
 
  
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stokie1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 290
Location: Staffs


PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 blows in one week with the beast as well

whats happened to the supercar you can use every day!

with no opc warranty im becomming a worried man

German build quality - tut tut
 
  
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stokie1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 290
Location: Staffs


PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPELLING!! - yes I know but I am a worried man!
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
Nordschleife


Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 30174
Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrong time for this press release then:

Quote:
“Gelber Engel” Prize for the Porsche 911

ADAC honours Porsche sports car for best quality

Stuttgart. The Porsche 911 has won the “Gelber Engel” Prize presented by the German Automobile Club (ADAC) for the highest-quality and most reliable car in Germany. The classic sports car produced by Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart, achieved top marks in both the latest ADAC customer satisfaction study and the ADAC breakdown statistics. The results of both studies form the basis for the renowned Prize of Germany’s largest automobile club. The ADAC breakdown statistics are based on an evaluation of around two million breakdown reports by road patrolmen. The club magazine “ADAC Motorwelt” determined customer satisfaction by means of a survey in which more than 43,000 readers participated. By winning this Prize, the Porsche 911 will continue its triumphal march in 2011 as an international award-winning role model for quality and reliability, which already brought it several top awards all over the world last year.
 
  
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Sub997
Newbie


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 27



PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6k at hartech will get a full engine rebuild, i think i know the warrenty you were sold with the car as I am also getting the same one tomorrow when I get mine, its a gold 12 month and has a max of 5k per claim with a no number of claim limits.
This would help towards a rebuild at hartech, plus no1 knows engines better than them.
 
  
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wizard993
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 11982


1966 Singer Gazelle

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sub997 wrote:
6k at hartech will get a full engine rebuild, i think i know the warrenty you were sold with the car as I am also getting the same one tomorrow when I get mine, its a gold 12 month and has a max of 5k per claim with a no number of claim limits.
This would help towards a rebuild at hartech, plus no1 knows engines better than them.


If that's what it needs/costs then maybe £1k on the chin is the way to go.

Maybe the garage should/could cough-up the £1k to get you off their case/back and supply you with a car until your 997 is returned?

Moreover they are both(warranty co + dealer) probably VAT registered and can easily claim the VAT back.
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Ocean Blue
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: blown engines Reply with quote

Wizzard,
I don't understand, help me out here. A Porsche Independent dealer sells somebody a warranty knowing without a doubt that there is a chance that the engine may let go, not even explaining what that chance is. What is it with the warranty, is it the one that gives the dealers the biggest payback. Is the cost being so cheap as to be palatable even with the risk. Last year I talked with an AA man who rescued my mates flat battery and we got talking about cars, even he knew about the Porsche engines letting go. He then gobbed on about the honda Vtec engine where there is not one engine blown yet followed by Toyota and Nissan engine reliability.
I have yet to see somebody define these small numbers, how does somebody quantify small numbers. If they are only a small number why will Porsche not come clean on the numbers they know? I keep reading out here of people saying "Only a small number" how do they know?
Does anybody know what is being hidden besides dealers trying to keep a lid on it for their own interests & benefits.
I'm not taking a dig I just can't see why somebodys dream should go up in smoke with no support. It's a tragedy.
 
  
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Achtung
Kyalami


Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 1995



PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: blown engines Reply with quote

Ocean Blue wrote:
Wizzard,
I don't understand, help me out here. A Porsche Independent dealer sells somebody a warranty knowing without a doubt that there is a chance that the engine may let go, not even explaining what that chance is. What is it with the warranty, is it the one that gives the dealers the biggest payback. Is the cost being so cheap as to be palatable even with the risk. Last year I talked with an AA man who rescued my mates flat battery and we got talking about cars, even he knew about the Porsche engines letting go. He then gobbed on about the honda Vtec engine where there is not one engine blown yet followed by Toyota and Nissan engine reliability.
I have yet to see somebody define these small numbers, how does somebody quantify small numbers. If they are only a small number why will Porsche not come clean on the numbers they know? I keep reading out here of people saying "Only a small number" how do they know?
Does anybody know what is being hidden besides dealers trying to keep a lid on it for their own interests & benefits.
I'm not taking a dig I just can't see why somebodys dream should go up in smoke with no support. It's a tragedy.


Hi Ocean Blue

I don't think the number of failures is small at all...

Hartech rebuilds over 100 watercooled engines per year and he is only one of a number of independents that rebuild Porsche water-cooled units....

How many people just go for a replacement engine?...

How many stay within the official Porsche network for the solution...

How many of the older, less valuable high mileage cars are just scrapped?

This doesn't bode well for Porsche's reputation as a high end sports car builder in the future. nooo
 
  
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wizard993
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 11982


1966 Singer Gazelle

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: blown engines Reply with quote

Ocean Blue wrote:
Wizzard,
I don't understand, help me out here. A Porsche Independent dealer sells somebody a warranty knowing without a doubt that there is a chance that the engine may let go, not even explaining what that chance is. What is it with the warranty, is it the one that gives the dealers the biggest payback. Is the cost being so cheap as to be palatable even with the risk. Last year I talked with an AA man who rescued my mates flat battery and we got talking about cars, even he knew about the Porsche engines letting go. He then gobbed on about the honda Vtec engine where there is not one engine blown yet followed by Toyota and Nissan engine reliability.
I have yet to see somebody define these small numbers, how does somebody quantify small numbers. If they are only a small number why will Porsche not come clean on the numbers they know? I keep reading out here of people saying "Only a small number" how do they know?
Does anybody know what is being hidden besides dealers trying to keep a lid on it for their own interests & benefits.
I'm not taking a dig I just can't see why somebodys dream should go up in smoke with no support. It's a tragedy.


As they built more 997's than the previous models the % that fail will probably be about the same vs the 996's and boxsters. Unfortunately due to sheer qty, this means more in terms of actual unit failures, so we hear more about it.

Maybe it should be termed a small % rather than actual numbers but it's clear that a worrying qty of early 997's are showing up as problematic...either complete failure of requiring lots of engine work.
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T8
General
General


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: blown engines Reply with quote

wizard993 wrote:


I have yet to see somebody define these small numbers, how does somebody quantify small numbers.

and

Maybe it should be termed a small % rather than actual numbers



BUT

Different people define 'small' differently and many don't relate to numbers when they hear of percentages.

EG.


If 500 997 engines were reported as having failed prematurely there'd be an uproar as it wouldn't be considered a small amount.

If 100,000 (non GT and non Turbo) 997s were produced and 0.5% were reported to have failed many people would say 'that's not bad'.

Fact is ......... 0.5% of 100,000 .............is 500 Cop
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airbus
Silverstone


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If 0.5% of aeroplane engines failed, I think most people would find that unacceptable. .5 for the 996/997 engine isn't acceptable either. We'll never know the true figure, but we can all agree its too high, surely.
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