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jfb1977
Monza


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 247



PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Massive mechanical failure. Not a good day... Reply with quote

So...bought my 2005 C2S from an independent Berkshire based dealer in November last year. It's a black on black manual with aero kit with 48k on the clock.

I paid £31k for the car with a 1 year 3rd party warranty (via Auto Protect). £31k is a lot of money to me, and this was the dream car that I've wanted since I was a spotty 12 year old kid.

On my way back from a meeting in Kent on the M25 today I got a hideous metallic banging noise from the engine, then an oil pressure warning light, then a brake distribution warning, then the engine completely let go and I pulled over and called the AA.

Was towed to Porsche Centre Byfleet (PCB) who are my local Porsche service centre. A quick check on the ramp revealed metal in the oil and oil filter.

Not good.

Talking to Tim at PCB the worst case scenario is a total engine replacement / rebuild at around £12k.

I have to agree to £1k just to strip the engine down and determine root cause before 'blame' can be apportioned.

So...couple of things.

Firstly, seems the Autoprotect warranty only has a £5k maximum claim limit. My ***** up for not reading the fine print.

However, Tim says that as I've not even had the car 6 months, I may have recourse under the sale of goods act againsdt the supplying dealer.

Before I know the real extent of the damage, I haven't mentioned this to the supplying dealer but I called the guy there today (as he said when I bought the car he has a good relationship with the warranty company) and told him what had happened. Before I'd even finished describing the problem, he had talked about speaking to regional management about making a "good will" payment over and above the £5k max that the warranty company would offer.

Now, he might just be a nice guy....equally, he might know that I have some recourse on him.

I'm trying not to panic too much until I really know what's what once the engine has been stripped down, but does anyone know anything about the sale of good act, or have any similar experiences that they can share with me.

If the warranty company refuse to cough anything up and I'm left with a £12k repair bill, that will be the end of Porsche ownership for me.

I just don't have that kind of money.

I know that some will feel the need to chime in with "I told you so" stories about only buying from an OPC with a Porsche warranty, but I'd rather hear from those with something productive to say.

I may have just lost my baby..... Sad
_________________
2005 C2S Manual with aerokit. (Play thing).
2000 BMW 728i. (Work bus).

Last edited by jfb1977 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5798
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's bad news and hopefully someone will be along with some advice. And don't go beating yourself about the warranty Friends
 
  
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RobIpswichUK
Watkins Glen


Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2037
Location: Ipswich (at a guess!)

1994 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a lot I can say on the warranty issue but heartbreaking news, really sorry to hear it. Hope you get it fixed without too much cost.
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'94 C2 Iris Blue (+ White Stripes!) Cup 2's, Big Ovals, FSD's/Eibach, OMP Strut Brace, 200 Cell Powerspeed Cats, 1.75" Hollamby Exhaust bypass, Carnewal FPB.
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Goose
Watkins Glen


Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 2156



PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My heart bleeds for you.

Hang in there and try not to worry too much (easier said than done I know). I'm not an expert on the Sale of Goods Act, but the section on merchantable quality springs to mind (there is also a similar section dealing with fitness for purpose). The section offers the buyer the remedy of rejecting goods (for a refund) where they are not of merchantable quality, though the right to reject is lost once acceptance is deemed to have taken place (obviously, passage of time is a factor here).

Further, the right to reject becomes hazy where the car has been inspected prior to purchase - the right to reject being lost as regards defects that that inspection ought to have revealed. The irony here is that, under the statute, the more detailed the pre-purchase inspection, the greater the likelihood that the right to reject is lost. Surprised

It is often found that, despite the statutory protection that is available, the mantra caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) is more often than not the reality that wronged consumers face.

In the end, I feel sure that the seller/warranty company will offer you a deal and a way out.

All the best on this.

Edited to remove incorrect section references - apologies
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Last edited by Goose on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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ResB
Estoril


Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 3708
Location: North Yorkshire

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad news indeed. I hope it turns out okay in the end. Because it is possible you may be seeking some form involvement from the independent dealer you bought it from and the fact you are asking for advice on the SOG act, I'd remove their name from your original post personally.

Give them the opportunity, if needed to sort the problem out before naming them in a thread like this.
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elliot_holder
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 418
Location: Guildford


PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats bad news- Hope you sort it easily, cheaply and soon.

I'd looked at your car when it was for Sale at the dealers - Its truely lovely!
If I'd been able to stump up the cash quick enough would definitely have been in there before you... !

Not many Black c2s's with Aero kits around so hope you manage to get her back on the road soon.

From my interactions with the dealer they seem to be 100% reputable, and genuinely decent guys running it, so im sure they will do what they can to help you out.

Good luck.
 
  
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mike brown
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 466



PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not pay 1k to get it stripped down to find out what you already know in your heart, ie its major mechanical failure, you need to get some agreement from the person who sold it to you or contact Baz he will give you the best advice and if it were mine he would be the one sorting it for me. you can find his details on this forum. Also I am very sorry for you I would feel the same if mine went Regards Mike
 
  
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jh1967
Newbie


Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13



PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sales of goods act is a bit hazy, but briefly a used car should be fit for purpose, if the fault was present at purchase i.e. something that should have been spotted by any reasonable inspection then you will have a right to remedy. If the car has been maintained by porsche and it is a manufacturing defect then you may get somewhere asking for a good will gesture to reduce the total cost which may mean even in the worst case you only have to find a couple of k to get it sorted and back on the road.

If the problem is attributed to a service being missed or lack of due care on your part then you may find the warranty company dont pay out. I would cut short the story in relation to the noise from the engine the way you tell it sounds like you kept driving instead of acting immediately - which is what you may have done in anycase - just doesnt read it.

Personally i'd try and spread the weight of the money, be nice to everyone, if you can get a couple of k out of the dealer, a few k from porsche and a full payout on the insurance you might not be in too bad a position.
 
  
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orangecurry
Donuts For Windows


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9612
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sorry to hear this.

Chin up.
 
  
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Seventy Seven
Suzuka


Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 1231
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do have recourse on Indie, as SOGA puts owness on the supplier. It is reasonable for a used car of this level and value not to suffer in this manner. The timeframe is usually 6 months.

I talk from experience. Turbo went on my X5 and in the end, the 'reputable' Indie refused to play ball. So, I took it all the way to court (Citizens Advice were great) and won hands down. Judge said to the dealer that it rests with them.

Hopefully you will have better experience and an easier / shorter period to get this issue resolved. Good dealers (indie and main) will look after you.

Cheers
 
  
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Stuart
General
General


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 5089
Location: Waterworld

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sorry to hear this, I feel your pain. First course of action is to speak with the dealer. If things don't progress like you wish then maybe get byfleet to strip and push for Porsche good will. If the car has full Porsche service you may get something from them.

I can't fault Hartech but if you go there you can't expect Porsche good will. From what I understand they get involved once diagnoses has been established ie new or reman engine.

Anyway, speak with the dealer then maybe speak with Tim/ David at OPC Byfleet and get their (off the record) opinion.

Good luck and keep us posted...

Thumb
 
  
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Tony 991S
Imola


Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Posts: 819



PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry OP Friends
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7488
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sorry to hear about your problems. I'm not so sure about naming the company involved, particularly if you haven't told them yet, but I look forward to reading some good news on the outcome soon.

MC
 
  
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jfb1977
Monza


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 247



PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the messages guys.

Have amended the original post to remove supplying dealers name. To be fair to them they've been nothing but courteous and helpful to date. I hope they continue in that vein.

Don't think Porsche themselves will help as the car has had 3 services in its life, 2 at an OPC, 1 at Northway Porsche, so it's not complete OPC history.

I'm trying not to get too wound up just yet. I need to wait and see what's what. Need to see how co-operative the warranty company are first. Then what sort of goodwill payment the dealer might have in mind. Then get a full and final assesment of the repair cost.

If I can get a new engine fitted by an OPC for £2/3k out of my own pocket I'll be (relatively) happy.

To be continued...
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2000 BMW 728i. (Work bus).
 
  
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jfb1977
Monza


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 247



PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jh1967 wrote:
I would cut short the story in relation to the noise from the engine the way you tell it sounds like you kept driving instead of acting immediately - which is what you may have done in anycase - just doesnt read it. .


I should've pointed out that the noise and the warnings lights all happened very fast. The time between hearing the first noise and pulling over was probably no more than 4 or 5 seconds from noise to stop.
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2005 C2S Manual with aerokit. (Play thing).
2000 BMW 728i. (Work bus).
 
  
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BruceL
Monza


Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 238



PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel for you too, and hope everything will be resolved soon, if not quick!

These situations obviously takes time to investigate and in legal or 'good will' matter for the customer, takes forever.

Having read your writeup and hearing a few other 997 cases, it really puts me off buying a second-hand 997 carerra even with aftermarket warranty. I am in the middle of looking for a 997 at the minute, but a few of my friends are putting me off for a 996 Turbo. I really dont know what to think right now!

Anyway, sorry for the waffle, I hope theres light in the tunnel for you.

Keep us updated, am sure all the guys here are keeping you company at the meantime, with plenty of advise.

N
 
  
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neil_c
Montreal


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 539
Location: Leicestershire


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your car is less than 6 years old (which it may just be) then you could well get some recourse from Porsche, so ask about that. You need to tread carefully though as you now need a full rebuild or a new engine which at an OPC is going to be painful.
 
  
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jfb1977
Monza


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 247



PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neil_c wrote:
If your car is less than 6 years old (which it may just be) then you could well get some recourse from Porsche...


Sadly my car is JUST over 6 years old.
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2000 BMW 728i. (Work bus).
 
  
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jfb1977
Monza


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 247



PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BruceL wrote:

Having read your writeup and hearing a few other 997 cases, it really puts me off buying a second-hand 997 carerra even with aftermarket warranty. I am in the middle of looking for a 997 at the minute, but a few of my friends are putting me off for a 996 Turbo. I really dont know what to think now!


Don't let my story put you off at all. It's a horrible freak incident that could happen to a brand new car as easily as a 100,000 miler. Mechanical parts fail. Thing is if it's a bonnet strut that goes then that's one thing. If it's a core engine component (like mine is likely to be) it's another.

Just learn from my mistakes.

Make sure your warranty claim limit is sufficient to cover the most dramatic mechanical breakdown and make sure the warranty company are reputable.

If I had my time again I'd have waited a few more months, saved a few grand more and bought from an OPC with Porsche warranty. They're not perfect either but I'd be covered for this.

Go have fun hunting down (and more importunity driving!) the new car!

Personally I'd always take a 997 over a 996, but I'm biased!
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Sub997
Newbie


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 27



PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buying from a garage is fine, there is no need to buy from OPC because OPC offer £1097 per year or £1996 for 2 years, which covers you for ANYTHING!
they just do a quick check on your car for free before your accepted on this.
Its worth doing.

unlucky about your car, also this is rare.
 
  
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