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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Just did the lower rocker cover seals Reply with quote

http://buying-a-porsche-993.blogspot.com/2010/09/porsche-911-993-diy-lower-rocker-valve.html

Seems to have done the trick, no more leaks and shiney bolts Smile

Lee
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Zuffenhausen :O)
Sepang


Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 2848
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing Lee, it's great to see more and more of us getting stuck into our cars. Thumb
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993 C4 Varioram Coupe
 
  
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berni29
Watkins Glen


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2185
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Very well done and thanks of taking the time to do a write up.

Berni
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993 C2 Tip 1994 187k miles. Black and Grey. M029 & Bilstein HD's, Elephant Racing RS bushes F&R, RS mounts, strengthened engine carrier, 100 cell cat inserts, HID's. Solid steering arms mod, top of the engine rebuilt, mapped by Wayne, suspension set up by Chris.
 
  
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clinchy993
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 6762



PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Lee good write up ,this helps with my winter project Thumb
 
  
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993S_Ocean
Hockenheim


Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 696


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto to what has already been said.

I have to do this job next on my car too.

I was told that the biggest problem on these is bolt heads shearing / going smooth and it's been putting me off.
 
  
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one Lee.

You say you only tightened the bolts to '7 ftlbs - i.e. not very much'.

Was this enough to pinch the inserts tight against the head? there seems to be two schools of though on this one. Some tighten until the inserts bite, where others tighten just enough to pinch the rubber gasket.
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dommorton wrote:
Nice one Lee.

You say you only tightened the bolts to '7 ftlbs - i.e. not very much'.

Was this enough to pinch the inserts tight against the head? there seems to be two schools of though on this one. Some tighten until the inserts bite, where others tighten just enough to pinch the rubber gasket.


They way I see it is that you cannot torque them properly without the inserts mated with the heads, so I think they need to be tightened properly.

Tightening just enough to have the seals touch would be a bit random as you could not guarantee each bolt was tightened the same and in fact the bolts just would not be tight at all. The seal stands out of the cover a few mm so touches before the inserts seat. Clearly it's all been designed to be bolted down and the seal compresses just the right amount and equally all around. I guess over time it just looses it's effectiveness by being compressed. Similar problem on vw's

BTW, thanks for all the comments and I'd be glad to help anyone local do this job.

The bolts are M6 so I would only use a small 1/4" drive wrench to undo and tighten - mine is about 10cm long. The inner hex drive of most of the nuts was either rust or had been "got at" before - and stupidly put back in! New bolts are cheap as chips. I noticed that the replacement ones were heavily covered in yellow ? zinc ? so may be an upgrade to the originals. The are in an area open to abuse being near the rear wheel and exhaust.

Hopefully, I won't have to deal with this problem again under my ownership, although the top ones a weeping a tiny bit.

Lee
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No surprise really, but I have more oil on the heat exchangers. I'm satisfied with the lower covers job, although I do agree that the covers are a poor design. When tightening the bolts I noticed that the aluminium inserts actually rotated in the plastic moulding once the washers on the bolts bit in - not impressed - if it rotates then it's not a perfect seal - I feel some billet ones are on the horizon.

The bottom of the top covers were wet in places, so I figured it was time to bite the bullet and do the job. Whilst I was in there I would also do the spark plugs. So here goes (I've spent 5 hours on one top cover so far!). To do this it is best to remove the side/lower tinware which involves:

1. Remove silencer: Undo the ball clamp and strap. Both these bolts had to be cut off with a hacksaw - stainless ones will go back on. With the bolts removed the silence would not budge - turned out to be a very snug fit into the cat ? so plenty of umph and a bit of wd40 on the joint and it came away. Now it won't clear the cat ? joint until you remove the heat shield on top - two rusty 10mm self tappers. Silencer off - will have fun cleaning it up and replacing with stainless bolts.

2. Remove tinware: Three M8 socket (allen) bolts hold it onto the head along with three M6 hex head set screws. Two are round the front of the engine on the corner of the tinware above the forward edge of the lower valve cover close to the subframe. They just about came undone ok phew, but the last M6 bolt which is past the rear edge of the lower valve cover was tight and snapped the captive nut off the other piece of rear tinware it attached two - drilled it out. The three M8 bolts were rusty and tight. With some care the middle and forward ones come out, but the rear which holds the silencer strap rounded internally - damn. Spend a couple of hours on this one - managed to drill through the washer behind the head, split it with a small chisel which released enough pressure on the bolt that with a well hammered in spline drive bit it came undone - wow.

Tinware loose and plug lead grommet push through + a bit of wiggling and the tinware was out.

Upper cover: with access not much easier I loosened the tight M6 socket screws that hold the upper cover on - they were tight but they all came undone. Some of them are still difficult to get to even with this amount of access. I doubt they have ever been off. A quick tap with a hammer shaft and the cover popped off. Initial impressions were of oil around the lower edge - I guess it's gravity, but it seemed that the lower edges of the three seals were particularly oily suggesting they were not sealing. They feel quite hard too, unlike the new lower one and in fact unlike the old lower one, which I guess had been replaced.

Going to collect new seals and bolts from OPC Wilsmlow tomorrow, then put it all back together.

Incidentally I also removed the heater blower to get more access to the upper cover.

Update to follow...

Lee
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12839
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst you've got the silencers off nip round to Sports&Classic and have the bypass pipes fitted Thumb
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Drew
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 433



PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samba-lee wrote:
..... - not impressed - if it rotates then it's not a perfect seal - I feel some billet ones are on the horizon.



Hi Lee, nice work there. Just curious why you wanted to put OPC top covers on when you're view of the lower covers was less than 100%?

Dont know

Are the billet ones very expensive?
 
  
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993S_Ocean
Hockenheim


Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 696


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew wrote:
Dont know

Are the billet ones very expensive?


a SLIGHT price difference...

http://hargettprecision.com/index.php/porsche-products/porsche-valve-covers/porsche-993-lower-valve-covers.html
 
  
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993S_Ocean
Hockenheim


Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 696


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they do look good though!

 
  
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ldt
Paul Ricard


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 3115
Location: Glastonbury Somerset

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zingari wrote:
Whilst you've got the silencers off nip round to Sports&Classic and have the bypass pipes fitted Thumb



yes
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew wrote:
samba-lee wrote:
..... - not impressed - if it rotates then it's not a perfect seal - I feel some billet ones are on the horizon.



Hi Lee, nice work there. Just curious why you wanted to put OPC top covers on when you're view of the lower covers was less than 100%?

Dont know

Are the billet ones very expensive?


Plenty of Rennlist posts suggest that the top covers are usually in a lot better condition than the lowers so I'm happy enough to stick with OEM and yes the bottoms are a bit pricey. In fact on reflection I think the covers are probably ok and I don't think the inserts spinning becomes a problem until the seals fail because each insert has a ring of seal around it. Of course time will tell, but the new seals are proud of the covers much more than the old ones. With the upper cover, the old seal was clearly hardened and not effective.

I've put the covers back on now with the new seals and bolts, and refitted the tinware. I've replaced all the plugs on this side of the car with new OEM one too - interestingly the top plugs were Beru and the bottom Bosch - another literally half-ar$ed service at some point in the past.

The silencer is literally only held on with two bolts and now I've got the old rusty ones off, it will be a 15 minute job on each side to remove the silencer in the future for a bypass job.

I'll get back to finishing the job tonight and give it a test over the weekend. Total labour time so far = 9 hours. But I suspect the other side will be much easier as there has been some learning time on this side.

Lee
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Zuffenhausen :O)
Sepang


Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 2848
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent stuff Lee. Thumb
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993 C4 Varioram Coupe
 
  
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samba-lee
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Manchester

1974 Lamborghini urraco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now the other side. The top cover on the drivers side was leaking a little so what the heck I did that side too and the spark plugs whilst I was at it.

The infamous spark plug at the forward top wasn't actually so bad and not much more difficult than the forward top on the passenger side without the PS pump.

You have to remove the side tinware which had been done before but clearly the three M8 bolts had been snapped and drilled out. I cleaned the holes out more with a tap and now the bolts go in smoothly (and I copper greased them of course).

The top valve cover bolts all came undo ok albeit with a crake each time and the bolts near the pump are the tricky to get an allen key onto. They've probably never been done and the seals were hard.

Whilst I was there I replaced all the lower bolts, but didn't do the cover as it wasn't leaking and has probably been done. All the bolts were rusty and all but the lower end ones came undone with a hammered in socket drive. I had to use some ingenuity to get the last two out which rounded internally from the socket key. I carefully drilled through the small washers behind the heads and split them off with a tiny chisel - thus releasing the tightness of the bolt and then they just screwed out by hand Smile

Enjoy and happy to consult with local owners on this job Smile
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