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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:24 pm    Post subject: New boy here......can you please help? Reply with quote

Hi all new here.

I am after some help please.
Someone that I know for few year now has a 1980 911 (930) 3.3L turbo layed up in his garage for the last 5-6 years. The car has done 60000 miles from new.
The condition of the car is good, not great but good. We had a look at it underneath on the ramp at my local garage and yes it looks very very solid car. The engine starts and sounds very nice, no blue smoke and drives great. Slight oil leak from the front of the engine by the crank pulley but nothing major.
We checked it for the usual rust but only could find the odd bubble of rust here and there.
The car will need full respray as some nice person keyed the doors at both sides. The colour of the car is in gold with half leather seats and cream interior.

Now here is where my problems start.
The guy owned the car for 21 odd years. He say that the car has been serviced by the local Porsche specialist......but he has lost every little paper available for the vehicle in a flood damage ( I know for fact he had flood damage couple years ago).....everything destroyed that time.
It's getting worse now. The Porsche specialist is not operating anymore (retired) and no one knows where he is.

So what we got here is a 30 year old 911 turbo with no history at all and need some money spent to it to bring it back to mint.

Is this a good idea for me to purchase this car? I have made an offer to him for £12000 (not shake hands yet) and he has accept it after I point out that a) has no history at all and b) that will need full respray.

My problem is now if I go ahead and spent £5000 on a proper paint job and few years down the line would like to sell what will the car worth?

Should I walk away? Any way I can get some history from anywhere? How important is the history.

Please help.
 
  
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Achtung
Kyalami


Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 1995



PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: New boy here......can you please help? Reply with quote

ZORBABOY wrote:
Hi all new here.

I am after some help please.
Someone that I know for few year now has a 1980 911 (930) 3.3L turbo layed up in his garage for the last 5-6 years. The car has done 60000 miles from new.
The condition of the car is good, not great but good. We had a look at it underneath on the ramp at my local garage and yes it looks very very solid car. The engine starts and sounds very nice, no blue smoke and drives great. Slight oil leak from the front of the engine by the crank pulley but nothing major.
We checked it for the usual rust but only could find the odd bubble of rust here and there.
The car will need full respray as some nice person keyed the doors at both sides. The colour of the car is in gold with half leather seats and cream interior.

Now here is where my problems start.
The guy owned the car for 21 odd years. He say that the car has been serviced by the local Porsche specialist......but he has lost every little paper available for the vehicle in a flood damage ( I know for fact he had flood damage couple years ago).....everything destroyed that time.
It's getting worse now. The Porsche specialist is not operating anymore (retired) and no one knows where he is.

So what we got here is a 30 year old 911 turbo with no history at all and need some money spent to it to bring it back to mint.

Is this a good idea for me to purchase this car? I have made an offer to him for £12000 (not shake hands yet) and he has accept it after I point out that a) has no history at all and b) that will need full respray.

My problem is now if I go ahead and spent £5000 on a proper paint job and few years down the line would like to sell what will the car worth?

Should I walk away? Any way I can get some history from anywhere? How important is the history.

Please help.


Hi Zorbaboy and welcome. Smile

A lot of things hinge on werther the claimed mileage of 60K is actually true.

Things to look for-

1) Who carried out MOT's on the car? .... contact them to verify mileage from their records.
Also you can use this site to verify recent mot's and also gain info on failure notices.

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/internet/servlet/ECHIDDispatcher

2) What is the condition of interior- carpet/seats/headlining/peddle rubbers etc? Do they reflect a mileage of 60K?

3) What is the condition of Engine bay/ luggage compartment ... as above.

4) Is the cat "tight "to drive... again reflecting a car with 60K

5) Does the turbo cut in?

6) Was the car itself damaged by the flood? If so, have second thoughts, especially if all electrical components including electric seats if they are fitted are not working.





If all these check out and you can persuade the mot centre centre to give you a printout of old mot's then the car could be a good buy.

if the current owner will write you an explanation letter ref flood and maybe give you a photocopy of insurance claim for flood to add to the file, this will help too

The thing is if you buy the car and intend to keep it for a long time, you then have a chance to build up a service file, resulting in the car being viewed in a favourable light in the future.

If you cant verify the mileage, my advice is to walk away. life is too short and remember a 930 can swallow money like it was a minority sport if you buy a lemon.
 
  
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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: New boy here......can you please help? Reply with quote

ACHTUNG wrote:
ZORBABOY wrote:
Hi all new here.

I am after some help please.
Someone that I know for few year now has a 1980 911 (930) 3.3L turbo layed up in his garage for the last 5-6 years. The car has done 60000 miles from new.
The condition of the car is good, not great but good. We had a look at it underneath on the ramp at my local garage and yes it looks very very solid car. The engine starts and sounds very nice, no blue smoke and drives great. Slight oil leak from the front of the engine by the crank pulley but nothing major.
We checked it for the usual rust but only could find the odd bubble of rust here and there.
The car will need full respray as some nice person keyed the doors at both sides. The colour of the car is in gold with half leather seats and cream interior.

Now here is where my problems start.
The guy owned the car for 21 odd years. He say that the car has been serviced by the local Porsche specialist......but he has lost every little paper available for the vehicle in a flood damage ( I know for fact he had flood damage couple years ago).....everything destroyed that time.
It's getting worse now. The Porsche specialist is not operating anymore (retired) and no one knows where he is.

So what we got here is a 30 year old 911 turbo with no history at all and need some money spent to it to bring it back to mint.

Is this a good idea for me to purchase this car? I have made an offer to him for £12000 (not shake hands yet) and he has accept it after I point out that a) has no history at all and b) that will need full respray.

My problem is now if I go ahead and spent £5000 on a proper paint job and few years down the line would like to sell what will the car worth?

Should I walk away? Any way I can get some history from anywhere? How important is the history.

Please help.


Hi Zorbaboy and welcome. Smile

A lot of things hinge on werther the claimed mileage of 60K is actually true.

Things to look for-

1) Who carried out MOT's on the car? .... contact them to verify mileage from their records.
Also you can use this site to verify recent mot's and also gain info on failure notices.

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/internet/servlet/ECHIDDispatcher

2) What is the condition of interior- carpet/seats/headlining/peddle rubbers etc? Do they reflect a mileage of 60K?

3) What is the condition of Engine bay/ luggage compartment ... as above.

4) Is the cat "tight "to drive... again reflecting a car with 60K

5) Does the turbo cut in?

6) Was the car itself damaged by the flood? If so, have second thoughts, especially if all electrical components including electric seats if they are fitted are not working.





If all these check out and you can persuade the mot centre centre to give you a printout of old mot's then the car could be a good buy.

if the current owner will write you an explanation letter ref flood and maybe give you a photocopy of insurance claim for flood to add to the file, this will help too

The thing is if you buy the car and intend to keep it for a long time, you then have a chance to build up a service file, resulting in the car being viewed in a favourable light in the future.

If you cant verify the mileage, my advice is to walk away. life is too short and remember a 930 can swallow money like it was a minority sport if you buy a lemon.


Hi yes my fault I forgot to mention.

Few days before the flood damage he taxed the vehicle. He had a small folder with all the previous MOT certificates in a bag in his daily drive. Also in there was the V5c.

So he has the following MOT cert:
1988 @ 50344
1990 @ 52750
1992 @ 58266
1995 @ 59095
1997 @ 59417
1998 @ 59702
2000 @ 59844
2006 @ 60073
2007 @ 60077 (and thats what the odometer reading now)
No current MOT certificate as was locked in the garage and not used.

I quess just lucky those where saved...so those will prove the genuine milliage?
Last Mot cert says advisory issued "NO"

The interior is pretty much mint. Just needs a very good clean up. No rips or wear or anything like that.
The rubers again mint. Doors are shut like a brant new car.....or better.

Engine compartment clean just the usual dirt you expect to see.

The car feels ok to drive. Again I am not sure what the ment to drive like. But it feels solid.

The Turbo cut's in allright Laughing .

No the car had no flood damage as the garage is on the other side of the house (higher) so no damage at all.

I believe this car is a genuine car. Just a shame he has lost the history/receipts etc.

But the price Is right?
 
  
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wagonface
Barcelona


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1427
Location: Esher

1991 Porsche 964 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorbaboy - if you know the guy, then surely you must have some confidence in what he's telling you?

If you really want this car then I would suggest you:
1) Get as much of the documentation that is still available and verify it (veryify the MOT stuff, using the link achtung posted)
2) Get copies of the insurance flood claim
3) Get the car inspected by a good Porsche independent garage close to you. For £100-250 they can give you peace of mind as to the condition of the car.

As for valuation - send a pm to SEE YA. He is a 930 guru and can advise.

If this car checks out you could end up with a beauty. Please post pictures asap!

Good luck, Josh
_________________
964 3.3 Turbo
ex: 996 C2 Cab
 
  
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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Josh.

Yes I do trust the guy...lot's.

I think the car is genuine. Just luck of paperwork.

My worry is, ok I will purchase the car do it up (full respray etc, and I know I go ***** with it Laughing ) use it for few years and then when I come to sell it will I loose money as there is no paperwork?
What you would expect to pay for the car in mint condition with no history? I just don't want to loose out when comes to sell.
I know I know......how long is a piece of string but how important is the history of the car is?

Sorry to keep banging about it but I just don't want to make the biggest mistake of my life.

Regards
Panos.

P.S Il try to post some pictures asap.
 
  
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Mudy
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 19
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely if the car has been sat not moving for 5-6 years there will be engine problems - dried out oil and fuel lines, all sorts of things - did you have to 'recommission' it in any way?

This aside, and as long as you can prove the mileage I think it sounds like a fair price considering that after you have it back in great condition it should be worth 20k? and you might have spent 5k on the paint etc and 1k on the engine perhaps who knows - 2ishk profit.

If you hang to it and build up a strong history it will pick up in value and slowly leave it's current lack of history behind.

Good luck!
 
  
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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: jtjtyjyjjj Reply with quote

Thanks again.

I called Porsche 911 UK and I have asked them if they can trace the original dealer that sold the car when new. They may be able to trace some of the history. I must say so far they have been very helpful. The needed a copy (fax) of the V5C and the tel number of the current owner to ask his permission for them to carry on the search.
That may take up to a week.

As I have all the MOT certificates dated since 1988 with the millage bang on I feel that I am half way there.

Anyway here is some pictures of the car.

What you lot think?

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schwarz993
Watkins Glen


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 2063
Location: London

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorgeous - absolutely love the colour, and interior.

Hope it all works out for you.
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Mudy
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 19
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beautiful - keep it that colour - awesome - buy it!
 
  
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wagonface
Barcelona


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1427
Location: Esher

1991 Porsche 964 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoah - 80's yuppy heaven! Awesome!

I concur with the other posts - ignore your head and go with your heart! Lush car.
_________________
964 3.3 Turbo
ex: 996 C2 Cab
 
  
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Ocean Blue
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Jul 2009
Posts: 1788



PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joost buy it, you'll not look back or regret it, Looks the dogs danglies.
Keep us informed of your decision.
 
  
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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup

Thanks peeps.

Next step for me is to do a PPI.
Problem is I cant find anyone in the Somerset area. Any one know anyone around here to do the PPI?

Thanks again.
 
  
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RichiRich
Suzuka


Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 1047
Location: Luxembourg


PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always have a leak down test to assess the condition of the engine.

Finally, don't buy the car because you may see a profit or a break even point when you come to sell it. Buy it because you want it and see yourself having fun with it Smile, and make sure you have enough money left to properly maintain it during your ownership (however long that may be).
_________________
2000 996 Turbo
Speed Yellow / Black

Ex - 2003 996 Carrera 4S
Ex - 1992 964 Turbo X33 (#777)
 
  
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wagonface
Barcelona


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1427
Location: Esher

1991 Porsche 964 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZORBABOY wrote:
thumbsup

Thanks peeps.

Next step for me is to do a PPI.
Problem is I cant find anyone in the Somerset area. Any one know anyone around here to do the PPI?

Thanks again.


I would strongly suggest using a (good) garage to do the PPI, and not someone like Peter Morgan. They will be able to give you an idea of cost to repair anything that needs it, which a standard inspector cannot.

Is Ray Northway too far to go? Also - find Mark Pearce (Stirlings) on here and ask him to recommend a good garage for a PPI down your way (he is Exeter based).
_________________
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ex: 996 C2 Cab
 
  
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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wagonface wrote:
ZORBABOY wrote:
thumbsup

Thanks peeps.

Next step for me is to do a PPI.
Problem is I cant find anyone in the Somerset area. Any one know anyone around here to do the PPI?

Thanks again.


I would strongly suggest using a (good) garage to do the PPI, and not someone like Peter Morgan. They will be able to give you an idea of cost to repair anything that needs it, which a standard inspector cannot.

Is Ray Northway too far to go? Also - find Mark Pearce (Stirlings) on here and ask him to recommend a good garage for a PPI down your way (he is Exeter based).


I had a look in Marks Pearce website and he uses Porsche in Exeter to do his checks. I 111 point check by the main dealers any good? They charge £200.00 for it.

Another think I noticed when I was checking the car is where the Vin plate is under the front bonnet on the wing that is painted black around the plate. Is this normal? Also is the same paint where the Vin has been stamped under there by the dashboard. Doesn't look like anyone has messed about with the plate and the number is correct, but it looks odd. Is not even painted neatly.
Il try to get some pictures tomorrow.
 
  
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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely that dont look right?
Is that a replacement panel?
Guys what do you think? Confused
 



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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please please can someone tell me if the pictures on my last post look legit? Dont know

Thanks.
 
  
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ZORBABOY
Newbie


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tumble Weed
 
  
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wagonface
Barcelona


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1427
Location: Esher

1991 Porsche 964 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people are assuming you are Greek and blaming you for the current crisis of confidence in eurozone government debt...

Or, an alternative theory is that there are very few people on this forum who own the earlier models. Please do stick around on here, but I think for very detailed knowledge from other 930 owners I would try the forums on rennlist. Good luck, Josh
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ex: 996 C2 Cab
 
  
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911C996TT
Monza


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 164



PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I could see why someone would do what they have in the first picture, It's much easier to see the number. But as for the second picture, why would this be done? If you were really wanting to change the ID if the car, why would you make it so obvious?
I can't believe this is how it would leave the factory. I just don't see why it would have been done at all.
I'll have a look at my numbers tonight (85 carrera) and see how they are stamped. Question
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Current:
996 Turbo, 911 Carrera,
VW Beetle, UR Quattro, BMW118D,
Combo 1.3CDTi
 
  
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