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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5063


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah nice one thank you. Begs the question why is it called a kidney bowl? doesn't look a whole lot like one! maybe the early ones have a different shape to them.
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Last edited by dommorton on Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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grahampm
Nürburgring


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 425
Location: Cheshire

1997 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the 'kidney bowl' on a pre-'90's car. I don't think the 993 actually has a kidney bowl as such - just reinforcement section which of course, differs between NB and WB car! Just another hidden detail (and cost)!



Graham
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Graham Thumb
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Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 12733
Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazing project Graham Thumb
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Phil Raby
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Joined: 22 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look out for a feature on the red Speedster in the next issue of Total 911 - it's a stunning car!

Cheers

Phil
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Zuffenhausen :O)
Sepang


Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 2848
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Must be difficult at times to see beyond the above to the finished product; a very exciting project Graham, can't wait to see the finished car. Thumb
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grahampm
Nürburgring


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 425
Location: Cheshire

1997 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this stage things are now happening quickly - all being well the whole shell is going off for acid dipping and e-coating next week, so should have a 'new' shell for Xmas!
http://www.surfaceprocessing.co.uk/GAS-paint-stripping-acid-dipping-bare-shell-car-restoration.html
Then the re-build begins - I've just ordered another grands worth of bits from Porsche Wilmslow. All new soundproofing which was destroyed in the strip down, new arch liners and supports - NB ones just wont stretch in WB!
Gaskets and rubbers for around the door locks and mirrors, beading between the panels, gasket set for the heater, etc!
New Atiwe Daytona steering wheel 340 dia with perforated grips has arrived as have the seat belts re-webbed in blue! Just waiting for the Becker Grand Prix to arrive on Friday.
The list continues...............
Graham
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Ecky993
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 490
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Acid Dip Reply with quote

Bloody hell !! Surprised

The Acid bath video is like something out of one of the SAW movies !! Evil or Very Mad

Are you getting your shell recorded??

Steve
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Dream911
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2479
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is rude to ask the budget for this transformation excludng the donor car.

Would £25k be far off? Assuming no major merchanical work, eg brake upgrades, engine work.
 
  
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993C2S
Zolder


Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 5996
Location: Berkshire

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Graham, the acid dip is interesting. Do you mind giving an idea of how much that costs?
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ballcock
Paul Ricard


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 3004
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely excellent thread .. Top man , please do post as many pics and as much info as you can , there are lots of interested (not to mention mildly jealous!) parties here. Thanks!
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grahampm
Nürburgring


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 425
Location: Cheshire

1997 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dream911 wrote:
It is rude to ask the budget for this transformation excludng the donor car.

Would £25k be far off? Assuming no major merchanical work, eg brake upgrades, engine work.


This conversion isn't cheap, the majority of the individual new parts aren't too expensive - but there are lots of them! I managed to get a kit of parts - doors, hood, hump etc from some-one who started a Speedster project a few years ago - but run out of time/inclination/money. That was the starter back in June.
I'm on very good terms with my local OPC & also Simon over at Porschapart. This combination has kept the costs in check. Plus 9M know my budgets. I will be coy about the costs, but you're probably not far off!

993C2S wrote:
Hey Graham, the acid dip is interesting. Do you mind giving an idea of how much that costs?


The two processes - dipping & e-coating cost just under £1700. It was decided to do go this route because of the amount of new metal and fabrication going into the shell, and also the colour change. Doing a full bare metal would have occupied someone for a week and they still wouldn't be as effective as a chemical acid bath!
The complete underside will be coated with rubberised stone chip, before being primed and top coated Cobalt.

I do intend to go with the car down to SPL and take some piccies - I will ask if they can take some shots after each process. I don't know if they will or not? I dont really fancy going into the plant myself to video it - and perhaps the local H&SE may just have someting to say as well!

I'll keep you posted!
Graham
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993C2S
Zolder


Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 5996
Location: Berkshire

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed Graham, the dipping process is a far more effective and better process (less abrasion by hand) for the shell. I guess the only things is the shell is completely stripped - all the recesses, gaps etc, so you need to confident that the recoating process recovers everything properly.
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grahampm
Nürburgring


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 425
Location: Cheshire

1997 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Update Reply with quote

This week's visit and running report.
Just been across to 9M over in a blustery - but dry (unlike most of the UK) Warrington, and here's the latest update!
So Marc has removed the A post and inner flitch panel and dash board top to make way for the new Speedster sections. The only dashboard section available is for LHD, so surgery resulted in splitting the section further and regraft with the RHD outer section - easy hey! The dash section is reinforced with extra bracing down to the bulkhead - you can't just drill holes and use repair washers to mount the screen as suggested on one website I found!

So now we have the complete drivers side and dash top - the wing has been trial fitted and gapped (note the repeaters and light washers - smooth!) The last bit to finish is the lower wing extension to match the widebody sill section.


The dashboard




Looking good!

More oil is now required to burn through to the midnight hour and then all being well, the car is off to have a wash next week ............................ in ACID!
Graham
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tim993
Zolder


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 5232
Location: Hampshire

2016 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Graham

This is such a fascinating thread and i am deeply in awe of you going through with this project!

Re the acid dipping:

Do you know how do they make sure all the acid is gone after the dip and especially from any hollow sections or any that are 'container-like' in the metal work?

Also, I'm not sure i understand the part about the dash top and needing to chop about with a LHD part. I would have guessed the existing dash top would still fit the speedster screen??? Can you explain?

all the best

tim
 
  
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grahampm
Nürburgring


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 425
Location: Cheshire

1997 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim
When the 'body in white' was first manufactured, there are a number of holes already made in the shell to allow for drainage - I think I'm right in saying that the majority of car makers always dip their shells prior to going into the paint shop.
All the sill & box sections have drainage slots or masticed in plugs which are then painted after. These will be removed - they're an alloy anyway, so the hydrochrolic will digest any we miss.
Plus if you watch the video, the car is rocked on a pneumatic table to slosh out any acid before washing with a stabalising solution.
I have seen a number of shells over at 9M that have been dipped, and they look like brand new, factory fresh items.

Re Dashboard.
The Speedster's screen bolts directly to the upper scuttle - and that is fabricated back into the dashboard and takes all the screen stress and strain.
The Speedster part has the additional re-inforcing sections and screen location points - the assembly is made of a number sub-sections all spot welded together to form the dash section. By drilling out the spot welds on the both the new and old sections, a new RHD Speedster dash was fabricated.
The finished item is a master piece with all the welding as per the factory item! I can weld, and I am an Engineer, but wouldn't have known where to start with this one - that's why 9M are doing this job, and not me in my garage at home!
I've taken loads of pictures of course, but in fairness to the guys who've sussed all this out, they'll stay out of the public domain.
Graham
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TheCock
Kyalami


Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 1943
Location: Poole

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legend. worship

This is a car I will need to see in the flesh.
 
  
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SpeedThrills
Newbie


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 18



PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A proper Speedster, 993 Turbo Bodied
Now this is a truly gorgeous Porsche Speedster 993 style, not some Modern Retro wannabe Boxster...
schwarz993 wrote:
Seen that red one before on RL. Absolutely gorgeous. worship
tedzwedz wrote:
its VERY beautiful!
grahampm wrote:
It certainly inspired me with my project!
Graham
Chris W wrote:
Absolutely stunning Graham, cant wait to see more... Have you ruled out a solid colour, Guards Red Smile ?
adamw wrote:
These are beautiful Thumb



Last edited by SpeedThrills on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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SpeedThrills
Newbie


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 18



PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil Raby wrote:
Look out for a feature on the red Speedster in the next issue of Total 911 - it's a stunning car!

Cheers

Phil


Brilliant! Clap

Teaser photos to share? Will it be the primary Porsche on the cover?! thumbsup
 
  
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tim993
Zolder


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 5232
Location: Hampshire

2016 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grahampm wrote:
Tim
When the 'body in white' was first manufactured, there are a number of holes already made in the shell to allow for drainage - I think I'm right in saying that the majority of car makers always dip their shells prior to going into the paint shop.
All the sill & box sections have drainage slots or masticed in plugs which are then painted after. These will be removed - they're an alloy anyway, so the hydrochrolic will digest any we miss.
Plus if you watch the video, the car is rocked on a pneumatic table to slosh out any acid before washing with a stabalising solution.
I have seen a number of shells over at 9M that have been dipped, and they look like brand new, factory fresh items.

Re Dashboard.
The Speedster's screen bolts directly to the upper scuttle - and that is fabricated back into the dashboard and takes all the screen stress and strain.
The Speedster part has the additional re-inforcing sections and screen location points - the assembly is made of a number sub-sections all spot welded together to form the dash section. By drilling out the spot welds on the both the new and old sections, a new RHD Speedster dash was fabricated.
The finished item is a master piece with all the welding as per the factory item! I can weld, and I am an Engineer, but wouldn't have known where to start with this one - that's why 9M are doing this job, and not me in my garage at home!
I've taken loads of pictures of course, but in fairness to the guys who've sussed all this out, they'll stay out of the public domain.
Graham


thanks Graham - i can see why this is highly specialised work. I had not appreciated what went in to these acid bath dip processes. Now, some more questions if i may (and sorry if you already covered these in your earlier posts):

I have seen a rhd 964 speedster, so do i take it the rhd dash top to take the speedster screen is no longer available or is this a 993 specific part? And in general are the speedster parts you needed actually 964 or special 993 parts?

again - please keep posting up the pictures!

tim
 
  
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