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Drew
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 433



PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the aux fan is supposed to keep blowing for a while if the engine is above a certain temp. It keeps an airflow through the engine cooling ducts I guess.

Whatever the case the fan on my 993 was blowing when I locked the car on Monday afternoon and was still going 20 mins later when I came out to check on it. I had stopped 2 hours later when I next checked!!

....and the car started fine the next morning
 
  
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Zingari
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 13226
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It always happens on a public holiday when you resist the temptation to watch James Bond and 'at a loose end' you turn to 'fiddling' with the car.

Well I found this thread and jumping the connnectors at the relay have now discovered but fans dont work on slow speed!

Having done some more reading I believe it is possible to replace both resistors without removing the PU (not S or TT) - the A/C should be a definite but the oil resistor is described as a PITA although a Rennlister states that removing the h/lamp gives access to another bolt to allow movement. I don't really want to take off the PU unless at some stage I need to do the condensor.

However the question is (1) do I make my own (>20yrs since I dealt with Pufs and PCBs etc and would need to start from scratch) or (2) buy replacement parts (getting the obligatory spanking from OPC - anyone know the price and best place to buy)?

If I go with (2) my thoughts are that if I can access the connectors I could place the resistor elsewhere in the inner wing possibly in the airstream to dissipate heat and may be easier to exchange as I won't need to remove the original part?

Also where is the best place to site the axle stands? Question
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The game's afoot. It's time to put a bit of (Colini) stick about......"Shall I open her up Miss Jones and show 'em a clean pair of heels?" "Do you think that's wise Mr Rigsby this is a very old car"
 
  
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mday
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 433
Location: Deepest Darkest West Sussex

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Making your own is not difficult.
2. The original parts aren't expensive: circa £50 each. In fact by the time you've bought your own componants to make your own you'll end up paying similar, however you'll have something that should last the life of the car. You could resite an OEM resister on the aft end of the cowls that surround the A/C condenser/oil cooler. Easy to get at but make sure it doesn't touch the arch liner when replaced.
3. Axel stands: Place under the front subframe just where the front wishbone bolts up (not under the wishbone). http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=36908&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=liner&start=0
 
  
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Drew
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 433



PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I opted for a porsche item in the end, in the knowledge that it will just break again, however I think a buyer would expect the porsche item to be there and not a DIY. Not that this really matters of course. But I'm unlikely to be the owner of the car when the next resistor is needed.

I only needed to replace the AC resistor as the oil cooler one worked fine, the AC one was not a pleasant stroll and I hear the oil cooler access is even worse

best of british
 
  
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orangecurry
Donuts For Windows


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9612
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I missed this first-time around - top job mday Thumb

When I take the under-front of my car to bits (hopefully monday), I'll be looking closely at this thread Very Happy
 
  
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mday
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 433
Location: Deepest Darkest West Sussex

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect you already know how to test the fans for high/low speed operation, but if not then:

Caution: Keep in mind the relay terminals are energized (12V).
-Remove relay R04 (oil cooler blower).
-Jump terminals 3(30) and 7(87c) for slow speed. Fan should run, even with the ignition off. If the fan runs in slow speed, your ballast resistor should be okay.
-Jump terminals 3(30) and 5(87) for fast speed. Fan should run, even with the ignition off.
You can check the A/C condenser fan similarly, removing relay R14.

All from: http://p-car.com/diy/fan/
 
  
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hot66
Hockenheim


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 699
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for someone like me who hates electrics ......... jump terminals ??? does this mean a piece of wire between them ?
_________________
James

1973 2.4S
1993 964 C2

gone :
1967 2.0 SWB 911
1995 993 C4 Cabrio
2003 996 Turbo DMS
2003 M3 CSL



DDK
 
  
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TMin
Nürburgring


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 424
Location: NE London


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, to make a circuit
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mday
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 433
Location: Deepest Darkest West Sussex

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hot66 wrote:
for someone like me who hates electrics ......... jump terminals ??? does this mean a piece of wire between them ?

You'll require a 6 inch piece of auto wire (not too thin) with a spade terminal on either end.
 
  
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hot66
Hockenheim


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 699
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mday wrote:
hot66 wrote:
for someone like me who hates electrics ......... jump terminals ??? does this mean a piece of wire between them ?

You'll require a 6 inch piece of auto wire (not too thin) with a spade terminal on either end.


so a bit of loose wire that sparks on contact is a no no then !! Very Happy

spade terminal ... male or female ?
_________________
James

1973 2.4S
1993 964 C2

gone :
1967 2.0 SWB 911
1995 993 C4 Cabrio
2003 996 Turbo DMS
2003 M3 CSL



DDK
 
  
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mday
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 433
Location: Deepest Darkest West Sussex

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you try stuffing the frayed ends into the relay receptical don't blame me if you end up either melting the wire, some fuses or indeed part of the wiring loom! Sad

So yes you need a couple of male spade terminals. Also bear in mind the relay terminals are energized (12V) without the ignition being on.
 
  
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hot66
Hockenheim


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 699
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just done the tests on mine ( using male connectors Wink Very Happy )

Oil : slow speed not working, high speed is working

AC : both slow & high working


So, I assume I'm OK running around with only the high speed fan setting on the oil cooler working ?
_________________
James

1973 2.4S
1993 964 C2

gone :
1967 2.0 SWB 911
1995 993 C4 Cabrio
2003 996 Turbo DMS
2003 M3 CSL



DDK
 
  
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Drew
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 433



PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

to be honest I'd fix that problem as a priority and not drive the car anywhere where it was likely to run hot in the mean time (ie avoid getting stuck in traffic)
 
  
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berni29
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2347
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

The high speed fan will stop the car from overheating. Do not worry. No fan at all would be a concern, but there again only an actual concern if the needle gets close to the red.

The cooling capacity of the system is compromised without the high speed setting, not the low one.

I am changing my resistor because the low speed setting is quieter and draws less current. No other reason. Having said that I have not really got any quantifiable way of working out how many times less the low speed would come on if I had one vs the high speed coming on if I do not.

I am pretty sure the low speed will hold the temp in most cases so on balance it is worth having (from a noise and energy point of view as mentioned above). There is only 10deg between low and high (I think).

Berni
_________________
993 C2 Tip 1994 197k miles. Black and Grey. M029 & Bilstein HD's, Elephant Racing RS bushes F&R, RS mounts, strengthened engine carrier, 100 cell cat inserts, HID's. Solid steering arms mod, top of the engine rebuilt, mapped by Wayne, suspension set up by Chris at CG.
 
  
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Zingari
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 13226
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Berni

Just read in the Adrian Streather book that the Tiptronic uses the oil cooler fan (I think another rad sits parallel with it) to cool down the transmission fluid hence why i will be swapping out the resistor.
_________________
The game's afoot. It's time to put a bit of (Colini) stick about......"Shall I open her up Miss Jones and show 'em a clean pair of heels?" "Do you think that's wise Mr Rigsby this is a very old car"
 
  
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Achtung
Kyalami


Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 1995



PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Berni,

Berni Said-

Quote:
The high speed fan will stop the car from overheating. Do not worry. No fan at all would be a concern, but there again only an actual concern if the needle gets close to the red.

The cooling capacity of the system is compromised without the high speed setting, not the low one.


I completely agree with this. Smile


Berni Said-

Quote:
I am changing my resistor because the low speed setting is quieter and draws less current. No other reason. Having said that I have not really got any quantifiable way of working out how many times less the low speed would come on if I had one vs the high speed coming on if I do not.


Both the low speed and high speed fan settings draw the same current. When the low speed fan is in operation the excess current is liberated as heat (up to 50W) in the resistor. Thats why the resistor is made of ceramic and is attached to a heat sink (of sorts).

Berni said-

Quote:
I am pretty sure the low speed will hold the temp in most cases so on balance it is worth having (from a noise and energy point of view as mentioned above). There is only 10 deg between low and high (I think).
Berni[/quote]


The temperature difference between the two settings is only 5.5C by the way!
 
  
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berni29
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2347
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Zingari

I must get that book. I am going to have a look at that when I get under the wheel arch to do the resistor. I do not remember seeing any pipes going to the oil cooler that were not oil pipes. I am not sure about the AC side.

Hi Achtung

Do you know I have always had a suspicion about dimmer switches and the like, I have never liked dimmer switches and now I know why. Or is it just the Porsche arrangement that uses the same amount of power? Dimmer switches just buzz but do not get hot. So the only benefit is noise I suppose. Oh well.

I still work in deg F so I think it is ten of those. I am getting better at deg C though with the passing of time though.

Many thanks

Berni
_________________
993 C2 Tip 1994 197k miles. Black and Grey. M029 & Bilstein HD's, Elephant Racing RS bushes F&R, RS mounts, strengthened engine carrier, 100 cell cat inserts, HID's. Solid steering arms mod, top of the engine rebuilt, mapped by Wayne, suspension set up by Chris at CG.
 
  
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berni29
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2347
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

I changed my oil cooler resistor today. Zingari the book is right, there is an extra radiator for the transmission.

The only thing I would say is that apart from the original resistor being inaccessible (at least on a Tiptronic) unless the PU is off, is that the connector is a pull out type, so just use a long screwdriver to prise it out of it's clip and then pull. Plug the new one in, test and then bolt it elsewhere using a 10mm bolt. I would not do it up too tight or you will break the ceramic resistor. I bolted mine to the bracket that runs across at the top below the headlight (yes a picture would have helped here). Plenty of air being blown around there by the fan and nicely out in the open as it were.

If it had not taken me the best part of an hour to get the liner back in properly it would have all gone swimmingly.

Berni
_________________
993 C2 Tip 1994 197k miles. Black and Grey. M029 & Bilstein HD's, Elephant Racing RS bushes F&R, RS mounts, strengthened engine carrier, 100 cell cat inserts, HID's. Solid steering arms mod, top of the engine rebuilt, mapped by Wayne, suspension set up by Chris at CG.
 
  
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Zingari
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 13226
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Berni

Reading you loud and clear - the resistors will NOT be going back in the same place as they are a PITA location so I too will look elsewhere.

Just ordered them from OPC today will be in by Thursday.

Bit more research on the AC and a local firm that Samba-Lee put me on to (cheers Lee - these guys know their stuff) states there must be a leak somewhere otherwise why would it have been empty? And the firm that re gassed it has not diagnosed correctly - a phone call will be in order tomorrow.
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The game's afoot. It's time to put a bit of (Colini) stick about......"Shall I open her up Miss Jones and show 'em a clean pair of heels?" "Do you think that's wise Mr Rigsby this is a very old car"
 
  
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5063


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a part number and price on the resistors please Berni.
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