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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your prob right about improvements... Sad

looking at the 996 and 997 you can see the huge interior changes... the 997 really is a good car right interior-wise... despite JC pull off the gear nob in his review... Surprised

hopefully the 998 will me more inspiring... dare i say it.. as the TT was when it was first lauched. Floor Floor

shame though at the engineering approach... personally i think they will address the issues... i suppose i find it hard to see why they are building eco friendly cars and not builing solid cars...! Question

my friend as a 997 c4s... loves it to bits but it is new... he cant fault it... then again he is not a 911 geek and wont ever be seen on a forum... as folks have said.. not knowing is good at times... Grin
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Big Bob
Barcelona


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will also be affected by the engineers on the 998 development team having clear objectives and targets to reduce "things gone wrong" on their pay for performance expectations Judge .
But as Porsche are a product of Germanic efficiency I would hope they have a product plan that ensure that.
We will see.
Regards Big Bob bye
 
  
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LOJO
Österreich


Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 958
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a reflection - as new Porsches have increasingly been bought by leasing companies for people wanting an alternative to a BM as a company car, perhaps the fact they are not enthusiasts means they treat the car less cautiously and rev it when cold, that is why we are finding more engine problems....

I guess Porsche will get to grips with the situation sometime, but it has taken too long....

LOJO
 
  
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mike brown
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 466



PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Lojo if what you say is correct and it probably is we should soon see heaps of BMW fords etc failing. I dont think so ,Porsche engines and engineering are rubbish. I always thought so way back let alone now but sadly I own one and love it.
 
  
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northeast canuck
Newbie


Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 40



PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently bought a 3-year old 997 and have had a few problems with it, but except for a new tyre the warranty has paid for everything.

Why the problems? Bad luck? Poor quality? Previous owners? Who knows!

What I do know is this: In the past 11 years I have owned 11 cars. 2 x Renault, 2x Volkswagen, 3 x BMW (1 Mini), 2x Honda Civic and 2x Porsche. I have had problems with all of them with the exception of one of the Hondas (the exhaust kept falling off the other) and my 987 Boxster.

The Renaults just fell to bits from day one. The warranty on the first Renault was only a one year one (remember those days)? I got so sick of paying for repairs I got rid of it. For some reason I ended up with a second Renault but it had three years warranty and TBH I used every day of it! Engine problems, suspension failures, the lot! But hey, it's French! Sh*tty but cheap!

The BMW's have been generally OK but they have had minor problems and the current one has not yet had a service (although it is due shortly - wish me luck).

As for Hondas. Well, they are probably the most sensible cars you can buy. If anyone here has ever been to my home country, Canada, you may have noticed that every other car on the road is a Honda Civic. This is because Canada is a country where everyone is bred to be SENSIBLE. I believe that Douglas Adams said once that countries have personalities and Canada is like a middle aged woman. So everyone there likes their Hondas because they never break down - ever. Sensible, you see, just like your mum would want you to be.

I moved over here over 10 years ago and just kept on with the Canadian mentality of driving Hondas. Until I noticed that every other Honda driver was older than my parents. In Canada everyone is sensible (boring maybe?) but here the only sensible b*ggers are over 65.

OK by this point you are probably wondering, "what the hell's his point"? Please bear with me, the Stella is flowing freely tonight...

The point, however, is this. A Porsche is NOT a Honda. A Honda is an incredible piece of engineering and it never breaks. GREAT! Honda have proven that you can build a car that runs forever, runs on the power of the sun and probably solves global warming as well (see the Top Gear episode about Hydrogen fuel cells). AWESOME! But it's not for me.

When you drill down through all this it is really quite simple. A 911 is a supercar and a Honda is not. The supercar league is notorious for spectacular failures. Recently I had to be rescued in my 911 for a gear linkage failure (see separate thread) and the flatbed lorry driver told me his tales of picking up numerous Ferraris for burnt-out clutches (one owner burns his out every month at the cost of £3800 a pop) and Lambos with engines that just catch FIRE spontaneously whilst parking at Tescos. Both him and the RAC man who came first stressed that they had only ever rescued ONE Porsche in their entire careers and that was for a burnt out clutch.

Supercars are famous for their huge expense and huge unreliablity. Porsche have made a name for themselves for being a bit of an oasis in the middle this money-pit of supercar financial armageddon hell. Compared to a Ferrari, yes the 911 is positively Honda-like!!

But, come on, it's never gonna be 100% reliable. Think of the huge ask it is for a car that can perform like this and never go wrong, ever. I'm not sure it's possible.

And if anyone is feeling hard-done by, just check out this Ferrari forum:

http://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=29418

Some guy has chronicled his ownership costs over the last few years. Holy god, I think I'll stick with my Porsche thanks.
 
  
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Big Bob
Barcelona


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1348
Location: Southampton


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well stated northeastcanuck.
Regards Big Bob bye
 
  
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Maxie
Yas Marina


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 8386
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'll second that. Good post NortheastCanuck.

~ Maxie Smile
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way to look it at I suppose sports cars prob come under 3 headings, the budget, mid-level and high-end.

I would say the S2000, Mx5's Z4's, TTs and 370Zs of the world are budget sports cars, Mid-level and high-level is a blur to some degree. Porsche have their Boxster which is midlevel, the Z4M midlevel, the 911S range Midlevel. The high end stuff I suppose is anything above the £80k mark? To the Lambos, zondas, certain Porsches and Ferraris etc.

It would be interesting to see the issues that Nissan have with their midlevel car, or Honda with their old NSX. Toyota still have their supra pending… I think it is these cars that we can compare the Boxster, Cayman, 911 with?

If we take the BMW M3 E46, that was a high performance car with quite a few issues. High performance cars are subject to issues due to the extreme pressures the parts are under. But pistons going crazy and engines needing rebuilds and needing to be replaced is not acceptable in any car (so I think).

It is unfair to use budget cars, which have their own faults, to compare against the 911s. I suppose we all to some degree we associate certain characteristics with certain brands. Porsche is one of those brands for sport car lovers. It is disappointing to hear the serious issues that some Porsche owners experience. Despite the reputation that Porsche have built, it might be fair to say the car may not be a everyday car and ownership will bring its own issues and at costs which are beyond costs experienced by budgets cars but less then that at the high end!

If you are fortunate to own a 911 then it has to be expected that somedays you are the statue and somedays you are the pigeon. Wink
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adrian996
Hockenheim


Joined: 04 Oct 2008
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Location: The Graveyard of Ambition.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm struggling to agree with some of the above. The RMS issue (for example) is a fundamental engineering fault - which has been around for over ten years.

You need to attach the gearbox to the engine and make sure that the alignment is perfect and that there is minimal flex between the two when under power.

Why is this so hard to achieve? We managed to put a man on the moon, perform pioneering life-saving heart surgery and elect a black man for the President of the USA; why can't we stop 996 and 997 RMS failing? I don't understand. I would try harder to understand if the cars weren't so expensive to buy - seemingly as a direct result of them having so much R & D put into them.

It doesn't take much R & D to realise that there's a pattern emerging on this one - I'd heard about the RMS issues three years before I even owned my 996. But I thought that they'd sorted it out with the launch of the 3.6, so I bought one of those. Well, you would, wouldn't you?
 
  
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Maxie
Yas Marina


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 8386
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adrian996 wrote:
I'd heard about the RMS issues three years before I even owned my 996. But I thought that they'd sorted it out with the launch of the 3.6, so I bought one of those. Well, you would, wouldn't you?


Same reason here....(not the only reason mind as you can't get a pre-facelift 3.4L Targa). Six months after buying mine, I had to get the RMS done; I did the clutch at the same time. Surprisingly, Chiswick OPC contributed 90% of the costs of the RMS. Been fine since but I read elsewhere on the forum that one can do the RMS again and again every few years.... please someone say that isn't true.....

~ Maxie Surprised
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porsche = Fab performance [1]

Porsche = pants mechanics [2]

Sub [2] into [1]

Fab performance = pants mechanics Floor
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mike brown
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 466



PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: 997 porsche annoyed Reply with quote

Well just looked at the ferrari link and wow boy are the porsches super value, to be fair I worked on 246 dinos as an apprentice and well remember how exhorbitant prices were then, 1973 ,and clearly remember thinking and still thinking how overated ferraris are, I will never own one, take the point about the reliability you cant compare a porsche to a ferrari its bullet proof in comparison, bravo for our porsches Mike
 
  
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Ian Howells
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 125
Location: Gloucestershire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adrian996 wrote:
I'm struggling to agree with some of the above. The RMS issue (for example) is a fundamental engineering fault - which has been around for over ten years.

You need to attach the gearbox to the engine and make sure that the alignment is perfect and that there is minimal flex between the two when under power.

Why is this so hard to achieve? We managed to put a man on the moon, perform pioneering life-saving heart surgery and elect a black man for the President of the USA; why can't we stop 996 and 997 RMS failing? I don't understand. I would try harder to understand if the cars weren't so expensive to buy - seemingly as a direct result of them having so much R & D put into them.

It doesn't take much R & D to realise that there's a pattern emerging on this one - I'd heard about the RMS issues three years before I even owned my 996. But I thought that they'd sorted it out with the launch of the 3.6, so I bought one of those. Well, you would, wouldn't you?


Hmm.....Im not so sure that we did!! Floor
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK...so I am at near conclusion of this bad experince

I will post a full account when it is over - but i will never buy another Porsche - its unreal the way I have been treated
 
  
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ellistai
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 274


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigfish wrote:
OK...so I am at near conclusion of this bad experince

I will post a full account when it is over - but i will never buy another Porsche - its unreal the way I have been treated

bigfish, i hope things will be getting better for you. don't give up any hope!

best,
ellis
 
  
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad to hear its still dragging on so much.... Hope it gets cleared up soon.

Best thing to do is say how your feel with your feet... walk nowhere near them again... frustrated
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interesting thing is meeting more than I expected people with EXACTLY the same engine problem
 
  
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigfish, do you by chance know '997 Engine Failure'?

Confused
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just met him
 
  
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clivejaustin
Newbie


Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigfish,

Saw your thread asking re values of a re-engined 997 - does this mean you have finally sorted out the issue? I'd be interested to hear what happened in the end (although from the sound of your other thread it doesn't bode well). Really sorry for you though chum.
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