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dl
Newbie


Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah it's ameer. See you've jumped to the 997 pages now,
after banging on about 996's for I don't know how long.
When you getting a porsche ? LOL
 
  
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5668



PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I just say here that I have seen some official reliability statistics for the 993 and catastrophic engine failures were about 3% - less than 0.5% different to 996 engines at the same time (about 2 years ago)... The difference is that you can replace an individual cylinder and head on a 993, whereas the 996 is generally more economical to replace the engine than pay the labour bill to strip and rebuild with a new block or heads...

So, not surprisingly, the 996 engine failures have been massively over-egged (£12,000 bill vs. maybe £2-3,000 rebuild of part of a 993 engine).

And, as I've said before, we have no idea if these failed engines were abused in the hands of previous owners... what we do know is that the 996 / 997 is much easier to drive and live with than a 993 or anything prior to that: So in many cases, the first owner will have been some poseur who has no idea about warming up high performance engines properly, before smoking the tyres and impressing the chavs on the Kings Road.
 
  
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Porkaholic
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 319
Location: Cornwall

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ameer

Before I bought my 997S I had an S2000 for 3 years its a great sports car and a hard act to follow, fantastic engine for what it delivers at 9,000 rpm. The dealership was spot on and the servicing was unbelievably cheap and I've only ever heard of one engine failure which speaks volumes for its build quality. But still wanted a Porsche 911 and a brief drive in one was all that was needed to convince me. I guess 996/997 may not be perfect and perhaps we should expect them to be but you could do alot worse. Before you jump into a Gallardo ask about the clutch life expectancy on them and the replacement cost, sit down first. Ferrari on the other hand will wow you with their service sheduling and costs.
My mates with their Gallardo and F360 don't think its so funny now when we go on track/road trips, the Porker keeps up better than the S2000 which is fair enough and the running costs are still credit crunchingly lower than theirs. So if your on a bit of a budget and still want to play with the supercars the Porker is probably your best bet, unless Stirling Moss is driving your S2000.
I had TVR Tuscan it was one of them 'offroad veehicles' always off the road broken but instantly redeemed itself when back on the black stuff!
Audi TT Exclaimation
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goodethernet
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 256



PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audi TT? That's a VW Golf isn't it?
 
  
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5259
Location: Oxfordshire


PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why do Porsche offer a 4 year warranty in the US & 2 years in Europe..........

Because the litigious Americans wouldn't stand for an engine failure after 30 k miles.

When M3 engines were grenading in the US about 5 years ago, they rebuilt/replaced them and offered a 100k mile warranty. In Europe the haggled over the repair then gave you 12 month warranty.

We, in Europe, roll over. Or get rolled over.......

did I remember to say they were all cheaper over there too.....
 
  
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Maxie
Yas Marina


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 8386
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
why do Porsche offer a 4 year warranty in the US & 2 years in Europe..........

Because the litigious Americans wouldn't stand for an engine failure after 30 k miles.

When M3 engines were grenading in the US about 5 years ago, they rebuilt/replaced them and offered a 100k mile warranty. In Europe the haggled over the repair then gave you 12 month warranty.

We, in Europe, roll over. Or get rolled over.......

did I remember to say they were all cheaper over there too.....


Of course you are right...we in Europe, and especially here in the UK, don't complain when we are being asked to bend over for some strange reason (higher taxes, higher car prices, TV licences, over-filled trash bins, you name it....). Don't even get me started on price differentials....ok then I will - new 2009 997 C4S Gen2 US$93k......

~ Maxie Surprised
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Chris W
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Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 7847
Location: North, South, East & West

2000 Porsche Boxster 986

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ameer wrote:
I really appreciate the frankness in your post.


Frankly speaking get a 993 if you have any concerns about reliability.

ameer wrote:
I went to my local Porsche indi.. Near Mill Hill.. They got a lovely silver 911S in their showroom… anyway.. I took a run down there the other day and just starred at it. Looked lovely… really got my heart pumping…


Best advice is keep running!!! Otherwise you're heart might just stop pumping one day...IMHO

ameer wrote:
I am liking the sound of the 993.. Worth a look into this one I reckon Asim


If it has to be a 911 and you don't have to have the latest babe magnet modern 911 then look very much in this direction.
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5259
Location: Oxfordshire


PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if we stopped buying new cars they may change things...........

Hang on, "we" have..........I wonder what will happen next..........

With new cars sales in the crapper, then 2 good things for us, used car values could improve...simple supply & demand, then they will have to make us better offers to get people into new ones.
Even Porsche have to keep their volumes at a certain level else their numbers will stop adding up very quickly, I believe factory shut downs are already in operation in Germany.

I have a friend who buys for a franchised car dealer, they can't get stock and are paying more at auction this month than last as more and more want used not new.
 
  
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adrian996 wrote:
Hi Ameer.

Firstly, I'm glad to read that you enjoy seeing a Porsche 911 on the road because (and I know this is REALLY weird) I still seem to get more pleasure from watching a 911 go by than actually driving my own..?! What the hell is that about..?! It's just the way that they all seem to sit on the road, the way they sound (especially when they HAVEN"T had their exhausts messed about with!), the way brush their teeth over the sink, the way they...Wooow! Sorry about that!!

Anyway, just to say that it sounds like you've pretty much got the bug (like it or not) and I have the feeling that, no matter what horrors you read here or elsewhere, you've pretty much had it I'm afraid! Wink

You can be very unlucky with some products. They used to say things like; "...he's bought a Friday afternoon car, there!" - insinuating that the car had been thrown together by people keen to get home for the weekend and making a shoddy job of it. I'm pretty sure you can get a bad AEG or Bosch washing machine too!

The thing is there aren't many people (even less nowadays) who buy a 911 to eat up motorway miles. As a result of this you can get really low mileage 911's which have never seen rain, have been marinated in Zymol and given the equivalent of executive relief on a regular basis - just like mine!! thumbsup BUT (and this is what kills it) it can sometimes be these cars that get the problems for no reason whatsoever, just bad luck.

(And please, no one tell me that "..It's because your not using it enough, mate" or "911's weren't designed to be Garage Queens" or I'll be tempted to put my car inside you.) The fact is that there's PLENTY of evidence for using a 911 every day - and maybe replacing the bloody engine at 70,000 miles OR treating it like mine and still getting troubles.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to this poor chap with Porsche UK. I know what I think will happen - but we'll have to see.


We seem to be one of the few level-headed porky fans here! Smile

It looks fab... sounds like my B&Ws and goes like a porky should... would be nice if they sorted out the issues and make it what it deserves to be...

I get the feeling that 993 is a bit of a crowd pleaser on here.. .most people speak really highly of it Wink I still love the new shape 997... just something about it.. esp in the seal grey!

And its true waht you say.. i got the porky bug.
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dl wrote:
Ah it's ameer. See you've jumped to the 997 pages now,
after banging on about 996's for I don't know how long.
When you getting a porsche ? LOL


Smile i made my mind up last week that i would not... but then i saw a few on the road today... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

short life...

i notice you dont post much...!
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris W wrote:


ameer wrote:
I am liking the sound of the 993.. Worth a look into this one I reckon Asim


If it has to be a 911 and you don't have to have the latest babe magnet modern 911 then look very much in this direction.


I dont know about the mechanics of the 993 and 997 but looks wise.. the 997 is a stunner in my eyes....

sure as the 993 is so old its bound to have old age issues no? i would have thought newer the better... Question
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porkaholic wrote:
Ameer

Before I bought my 997S I had an S2000 for 3 years its a great sports car and a hard act to follow, fantastic engine for what it delivers at 9,000 rpm. The dealership was spot on and the servicing was unbelievably cheap and I've only ever heard of one engine failure which speaks volumes for its build quality. But still wanted a Porsche 911 and a brief drive in one was all that was needed to convince me. I guess 996/997 may not be perfect and perhaps we should expect them to be but you could do alot worse. Before you jump into a Gallardo ask about the clutch life expectancy on them and the replacement cost, sit down first. Ferrari on the other hand will wow you with their service sheduling and costs.
My mates with their Gallardo and F360 don't think its so funny now when we go on track/road trips, the Porker keeps up better than the S2000 which is fair enough and the running costs are still credit crunchingly lower than theirs. So if your on a bit of a budget and still want to play with the supercars the Porker is probably your best bet, unless Stirling Moss is driving your S2000.
I had TVR Tuscan it was one of them 'offroad veehicles' always off the road broken but instantly redeemed itself when back on the black stuff!
Audi TT Exclaimation
Good luck


You're telling me... The car has done 2,500 miles from new, just had its first service and it cost me £176!!!! Nothing wrong with it... I know it wont skip a beat at anytime... Its a great car i suppose... but not quite happy with it because of have the TT before...

The Audi TT 225 coupe... was the previous car.. its quite lush inside... yeap i sold it as it was 5 years old and every pleb was driving a TT! Miss it.. its such a nice vehicle to be in... its not a F1 car on pace but it was just nice. The s2000 seams so basic next to the TT... the s2000 is so so plasticy! Thats one of the reasons i found the interior in the 996 really naff... just plastic everywhere. The 997 is so much better... nicely done...

Was joking about the Gallardo... its well out of the mprice bracket... the service on those babies is about £2k and the clutch is about the same money... hmmm insurance.. .lol no way at 28 years old! lol.

Its nice to see a S2000 owner moving onto a 997! I got a thing for the 997 in the seal grey... even the silver...
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 168



PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goodethernet wrote:
Audi TT? That's a VW Golf isn't it?


yeap... the old TT was based on the golf... thats not a bad thing is it? Golfs are made by VW which is owned by who again..... Floor
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ellistai
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 275


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big fish, any progress? you know we all feel for you!
 
  
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bigfish
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been keeping quite - but I am having a nightmare at the moment & unterly frustated with the whole 997 experinence

I have a few avenues left - and will provide all the details in due course...but frustation with a brand I have admired for years sums it up
 
  
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AaronC
Newbie


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 12
Location: England


PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really feel for you. I know what they are like to deal with, as I was ready to throw in the towel with my NEW 997 at the time.

I persisted, got through it, and still enjoy my car. Unless I am desparate, or Porsche suddenly start to respect their customers, I will never buy another new Porsche. There are plenty of other cars out there to chose from and spend my £70K on.

I wouldnt blame the car though as it is the innocent party in all of this. I just cant stand dealing with the <insert word here> from Porsche.
 
  
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Chris W
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Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 7847
Location: North, South, East & West

2000 Porsche Boxster 986

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ameer wrote:
Chris W wrote:

ameer wrote:
I am liking the sound of the 993.. Worth a look into this one I reckon Asim

If it has to be a 911 and you don't have to have the latest babe magnet modern 911 then look very much in this direction.

I dont know about the mechanics of the 993 and 997 but looks wise.. the 997 is a stunner in my eyes....

Answer highlighted in bold.
ameer wrote:
sure as the 993 is so old its bound to have old age issues no? i would have thought newer the better... Question

More like age old advantages...engine was developed over decades, the whole reason why we like 993s is they'd sorted pretty much everything possible.
ameer wrote:
seems like the 993 is a crowd pleaser on here

Better put... pleases the crowd...I don't know if you are being cynical or not but I think there is enough evidence here and elsewhere as to why; not the issues which triggered this thread and market prices support the 'hype'.

P.S. Hope OP Bigfish is happy to let us discuss all sorts while he keeps his head down; truly must be a sickening experience for you.
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993C2S
Zolder


Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 5996
Location: Berkshire

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wattie wrote:
Can I just say here that I have seen some official reliability statistics for the 993 and catastrophic engine failures were about 3% - less than 0.5% different to 996 engines at the same time (about 2 years ago)...


I've been following 993 on forums for many years and I don't remember ever reading of one having engine failure.

That's not to say they haven't happened, but I can't ever recall reading about one on a forum.

Surely with a 3% failure rate this would have come up??

Anyone else? ChrisW? Pickled Piper? Guards Red?
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ameer
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a 911 fan, its sad to see the issues being experienced by bigfish.

Asim you are prob right about the 993. I don’t know why I get shot down everytime I mention the 996/997 issues! Its like people don’t believe! I am sure the 993 is build how a Porsche should be.

In terms of looks I think the 997 has it.. its stunning… in terms of the quality you would expect from a Porsche.. non-existant in the 997.. right. The best way to own a 997.. buy it new and sell it when the warranty expires!

I really hope Bigfish your issue gets sorted out quickly. Terrible state of affairs!

Do you think Porsche is going to bother to look at this stuff in the 998? Will the issue even feed up that far to the designers? There is a noted RMS issue with the 996 and the has carried onto the 997… see my point.
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Chris W
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ameer wrote:

Do you think Porsche is going to bother to look at this stuff in the 998? Will the issue even feed up that far to the designers?


Honestly, no. nooo

Statisticians and economists will show that it is not viable at the expense of profits. Thats NOT saying quality will not improve just that they will not put the build level back to how it ran small batch production. Quality will continue to developed as Porsche gets bigger based on maths, Japanese style, i.e. Kaizen, Baka-yoke etc etc. What this eradicates is the human quality perspective that cannot be replicated by a machine.
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