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The return of Marty Wild
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 1822



PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:36 pm    Post subject: For those in the know... how hard to get on the waiting list Reply with quote

I got talking to a mate about the modern era of forced scarcity and GT flipping.

How hard is it for John Doe to get on the list for say the 992 GT3 when it’s released? Is it like the Ferrari world where you need a personal history with OPCs and big purchases?

Furthermore, what’s the average mark up that the lucky people that get on the list normally whack on when they flip it should they not be true enthusiasts?
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doubt you'll get to flip more than once. The way it works is you start at the bottom, then work your way up, but the key is to always sell back to Porsche and let them flip it and make the money. Upside for you is it means you have a free car everytime as they usually give you on the trade what you paid for it the year before.
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The return of Marty Wild
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s interesting, so in short, if you don’t have the relationship you’re never laying your hands on a brand new GT variant?

How much do the cars usually end up on the secondhand market for over the list price?

Cheers, Alex.
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
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Location: Derbyshire

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Massively depends on the car.

991 911R was list price £136K, they were immediately changing hands at £500k, now available approved used from OPC £350k (there was one in Nottingham a few weeks ago puh )
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NLW73
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Joined: 27 May 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sub 300k now for 911r so some folks have been burned. Good and bad luck for greed
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The return of Marty Wild
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 1822



PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about on the more ‘common’ GT3s, how much mark up do they see once moved on from the original owner.

Crazy state of affairs, especially as Porsche maintained over the last 2-3 years that they were taking steps to stop the issue.
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apollokre1d
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Joined: 06 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what Alex said is correct, I was listening to a podcast where I think it was the owners of Topaz said they wanted to get on "The List" to get GT cars.
So, they went and bought a few of Macan's and Cayenne's through Porsche and I think they used Porsche finance to make them favourable which did work, but said it would have been cheaper in the end to just pay over list price for GT cars they wanted.
Perhaps long term it works out if you can make a sufficient profit on the GT cars you sell Question
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991.2GTS
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Apr 2019
Posts: 321
Location: Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:
I think what Alex said is correct, I was listening to a podcast where I think it was the owners of Topaz said they wanted to get on "The List" to get GT cars.
So, they went and bought a few of Macan's and Cayenne's through Porsche and I think they used Porsche finance to make them favourable which did work, but said it would have been cheaper in the end to just pay over list price for GT cars they wanted.
Perhaps long term it works out if you can make a sufficient profit on the GT cars you sell Question


Once you become one of the 'chosen ones' though, you probably get allocations for whatever GT cars you want. And keep buying those GT cars and access to the limited number stuff like the 911R or Speedster, will undoubtedly follow. It's a numbers game, as long as you are buying lots of cars, all on finance, you probably have a chance.


Porsche have floated the idea of a subscription only model for GT cars. Which would certainly stop the speculators, and only appeal to those who really wanted to drive them.

But I suspect Porsche are secretly happy with the attention and how it makes the marque even more exclusive in some sense. Especially the limited run cars, the speculation on their GT cars really fuels the ridiculous prices for the exotic stuff, and I don't see any downsides for Porsche. In fact, like the Speedster, it's actually encouraged them to price their cars more inline with what the market seems to suggest they are worth. This may well trickle down through the brand, and even more profits follow.
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911TEL
Albert Park


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1532
Location: Inverness & Kazakhstan

2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

991.2GTS wrote:
apollokre1d wrote:
I think what Alex said is correct, I was listening to a podcast where I think it was the owners of Topaz said they wanted to get on "The List" to get GT cars.
So, they went and bought a few of Macan's and Cayenne's through Porsche and I think they used Porsche finance to make them favourable which did work, but said it would have been cheaper in the end to just pay over list price for GT cars they wanted.
Perhaps long term it works out if you can make a sufficient profit on the GT cars you sell Question


Once you become one of the 'chosen ones' though, you probably get allocations for whatever GT cars you want. And keep buying those GT cars and access to the limited number stuff like the 911R or Speedster, will undoubtedly follow. It's a numbers game, as long as you are buying lots of cars, all on finance, you probably have a chance.

Porsche have floated the idea of a subscription only model for GT cars. Which would certainly stop the speculators, and only appeal to those who really wanted to drive them.

But I suspect Porsche are secretly happy with the attention and how it makes the marque even more exclusive in some sense. Especially the limited run cars, the speculation on their GT cars really fuels the ridiculous prices for the exotic stuff, and I don't see any downsides for Porsche. In fact, like the Speedster, it's actually encouraged them to price their cars more inline with what the market seems to suggest they are worth. This may well trickle down through the brand, and even more profits follow.


Or........

You are a ‘V Blogger’ / Youtube/ Faecesbk /Instagrumbler.........

Then you can jump the queue and flip to your hearts content ......

🤔
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vroomvroom
Montreal


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The premium on a GT3 was about £50k month one, then dropped back to about £25k and has been this level for a year. (GT tourings still at +£50k)

4 year old GT3s have only just dropped below their original list price.


I know someone that has had a dozen plus GT cars, never made much money on the, (puts liars of miles on them, including track), generally he has to give them back to the OPC to sell on. As an example to get a speedster slot, he is selling his R back at list (that's the best part of £180k behind current mkt value), however the speedster will command £200k over list.


If you want the latest GT cars, either pay the used premium (it's cheaper and more dignified than playing the dealer principle game), or wait a few years, it won't be long before we go back to the old days when they had to incentive customers to buy the GT cars.
 
  
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Cheib
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 319



PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don’t think I’d trade an R for a Speedster....who knows when they will next make an R...and there are a lot less made. Never driven one but those that have say the R is a special car.

I was luckily enough to get a 991.2 GT3 allocation but I desperately wanted that car because it was manual....have no interest in a GT4/Spyder. I think the fact that I was very specific about wanting that car helped me....
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