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996 C4 felt too soft on track- any advice

D

daniel hadfield

New member
Joined
21 Jul 2006
Messages
16
Did my first trackday recently and hired an instructor for the whole day (only way to get insured for 1st one). The car has factory lowered suspension, conti sport road tyres (ran at normal handbook pressures) and standard brakes. The instructor races a Radical normally so not surprised that he found my car soft but I was amazed how soft I found it on track compared to the road where it normally feels sharp and reponsive. The amount of body roll was something I did not expect and the tyres constantly felt like they were about to roll off the rims . All this and I still got out cornered by most other cars on track (944, 968, 911 etc). I admit that some of it was down to my driving technique but I can't help feeling like I need firmer suspension and or stickier tyres before I go on track again to sharpen the car up. However, if I make the car stickier will I have issues with oil circulation etc? Can't afford a GT3 by the way.

Am I talking rubbish or has anybody else felt slightly underwhelmed on track? Any suggestions for cheap mods?




Migration info. Legacy thread was 132360
 
Dump the Contis they are not track tyres, get the geometry sorted. Whilst on track check, check and recheck the tyre pressures as they will dramatically shoot up (possibly 10psi) on track.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 132361
 
Tyres will make the biggest difference - especially if you fit bigger rims - 19" for example. You don't want to be running normal pressures for a start.

I'm assuming the springs and dampers are working correctly? The next mod would be to change these of you do a lot of track days. Personally I'd pay to rag someone elses car.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 132362
 
thanks Damian & Stats

Complete novice - never checked the tyre pressures once at the circuit so I presume in future I should let them down once the pressures rise.

Could I fit Pilot Cups or similar to the 18" carerra alloys? If I did would I end up spinning the car on a rainy day? Heard a few tales.

Have to agree with Stats about using someone elses car as I had to thrash the crap out of her just to keep out of the way of GT3's and modified 944t etc. Did not feel right and also some guy in front put 2 big holes in my screen and scratched the bonnet with gravel dropping out of his 993. Is it possible to hire Porsche or does it have to be Caterhams?


Migration info. Legacy thread was 132367
 
I've never been on a track before...but from the stories I hear, track driving is a completely different experience to road driving as you have just discovered. My friend drove an Audi TT on track; while I consider this to be a good road car, he said it was 'rubbish' on track, too much body roll, not enough acceleration whereas on the road it could never be described as such (after I drove one).

~ Maxie


Migration info. Legacy thread was 132372
 
Putting tires like Sport Cups on will increase your cornering speeds but will also make the car break away much quicker. Higher limits means harder to drive and to learn.

If I were you I wouldn't worry about the other cars on the track. Concentrate on improving your technique. Have 3 or 4 more track days before you think about doing anything to the car (other than tyre pressures). You also might want to find a 911 specialist instructor.

Ian.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 132374
 
Maxie

No joke - on track my car looked slow compared to all the tweaked Porsches, GT3's, semi-race spec 911's and I really tried to push on and soon found the limits of the tyres. I was giving way so often that I hardly did a full lap on the race line and it did spoil things a little. I think Ian_uk has some good advice but it is hard to improve technique when you have a queue of 997 GT3 RS storming up behind you like the Pamplona Bull Run. Will take Ians advice and give it a few more goes.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 132386
 
Previous poster said:
Quote: Originally posted by daniel hadfield on 13 April 2007

Maxie

No joke - on track my car looked slow compared to all the tweaked Porsches, GT3's, semi-race spec 911's and I really tried to push on and soon found the limits of the tyres. I was giving way so often that I hardly did a full lap on the race line and it did spoil things a little. I think Ian_uk has some good advice but it is hard to improve technique when you have a queue of 997 GT3 RS storming up behind you like the Pamplona Bull Run. Will take Ians advice and give it a few more goes.



Daniel, your car will be slow compared to the cars you mention. These are very much designed for track work & your C4 is not. However were you to swap cars you would probably find they in your C4 would sweep past you in a 997 GT3 RS. It takes time to get used to driving on a track. When I started out I made a GT3 look slow, but as you get more used to it & get quicker. Best thing is probably to pick you track days carefully initially, make sure it will be a quieter day, a day where the real fast guys won;t be in attendence. Then you can make yourself much more space on track & not be hindered by the fast guys. Once you feel more up to pace, then think about mods to suit track work. Even with the modified suspension, you will still have the GT3 RS's streaming past you. :)
Click to expand...

Migration info. Legacy thread was 132387
 
I've bought a 996 C2 and I'm having similar thoughts.

I'm considering putting on uprated anti roll bars to prevent the body roll. I have contisports on all round and I found the rears would break away quite quickly. I think the MO300 suspension will be overkill for what is a very good road car.

I also was slightly underwhelmed after coming from an S2000 which made a very good track car as stock.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 132395
 
Previous poster said:
Quote: Originally posted by daniel hadfield on 13 April 2007
thanks Damian & Stats
Complete novice - never checked the tyre pressures once at the circuit so I presume in future I should let them down once the pressures rise.
Could I fit Pilot Cups or similar to the 18" carerra alloys? If I did would I end up spinning the car on a rainy day? Heard a few tales.
Have to agree with Stats about using someone elses car as I had to thrash the crap out of her just to keep out of the way of GT3's and modified 944t etc. Did not feel right and also some guy in front put 2 big holes in my screen and scratched the bonnet with gravel dropping out of his 993. Is it possible to hire Porsche or does it have to be Caterhams?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go with Cups, without proper track setup you'll be wasting them. Stay with a Michelin or a Bridgestone whilst you get used to the car. Get a fast road setup (geometry) from a reputable tuner, I bet the alignment will be out.

Invest some time with an instructor and get a few pax laps in with some of the more seasoned trackdayers.

Once you start to feel comfortable and more confident then you can start to look at ARB, suspension etc, but do take care, too radical and you'll no longer have a road car!

Migration info. Legacy thread was 132463
 
Think your suspension will probably also be suspect if it hasn't been changed recently as 993s are old cars. Worth investigating the current condition of your suspension.

Someone said M030 too harsh - I had an M030 993 and it wasn't at all a problem on road as it is just a fast road type set up probably slightly more firm than std.

Trackday tyres - not required unless your car is set up as said before. They are fine on road in all conditions with the exception of standing water. Depends on how and when you use your car. If it's a daily drive then Michelin Pilots would prob. be a good all rounder. If it's purely a good weather blast / trackday car then get some Toyo R888s or similar.

Def. check out your suspension first though.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 132471
 
Previous poster said:
Quote: Originally posted by 993C2S on 13 April 2007

Dunc, it's a 996.
Click to expand...
Erm, yes - it would appear so. Oops.

What i said still applies though!


Migration info. Legacy thread was 132489
 
Track driving is brutal.
It is hard on the car and on you

If it is any consolation I found a turbo X50 a bit underwhelming. These are road cars.
I could keep up on the straights, even pull away slightly, but corner speed is an issue.

I am not an expert, but I have concluded a few things:
1. When you turn in, you want to be either slightly on the brakes or just coming off them, to keep the weight on the front wheels, since you have no weight over them.
2. You are rarely on the limit through the apex. So you are losing corner speed.
3. Due to not having got the corner right, even though you have the line right, you try to get on the power to make up for it. This puts the weight over the rear which makes the front scrub wide.

Change from the Contis first. Then try to change your driving style.
Remember you have ABS, so if braking is not close to activating it, you may be braking too gently.
Use full throttle, get it mashed to the carpet.
Let some air out of the tyres (I let out 4-6 psi, but I may need to do more).

I have the ABS, traction control and stability control working. But I have these working occaisionally on the road too ;-)

On a C4, you can't use slicks according to Porsche. But better tyres should not be an issue.
Oil starvation is only a problem through long high speed corners, and as novice you are unlikely to be pushing it that hard through high speed corners. You need big kahunas for that.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 132526
 
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