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mogsyman
Monza


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 209



PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My car is a 996 C2 and nearly three years old. I've owned it from new and never tracked it or abused it.I've had the RMS replaced twice so far and for reasons best known as 'esp' I thought as it's due a 3 year service/MOT next month I'd have look under the back and see if there was any evidence of oil......And there it was

I'm covered under the warranty so Porsche will do the biz I guess, but I've only covered 5000 miles in the last year and should I expect this every bloody year?There is obviously a problem with these seals based on the number of threads on various sites etc.So what do I do?Do I chuck my toys out of the pram or just accept that this is part of the 'ownership' of a modern 996?Will this issue also have an effect on the re-sale value

Cheers

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Shed17
Montreal


Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 567



PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by mogsyman on 22 April 2006

So what do I do?

Do I chuck my toys out of the pram or just accept that this is part of the 'ownership' of a modern 996?

Will this issue also have an effect on the re-sale value <IMG alt="" src="http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif">

Cheers


It already is an issue that affects the value of the car. Unfortunately to many people accept this as part of 996 ownership because they have a warranty and don't care that it is poor quality engineering.

In some ways the 996 is akin to the 964, an unwanted offspring, won't use the term cause Sundeep will ban me Wink )brought in to shore up a gap until a better model is manufactured a la 993 and now the 997

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Parts
Dijon


Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 7590



PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't accept it. If you bought the car from new and have a relationship with the dealer have a chat with the manager at the dealer. Be nice and ask what he can do for you. They might offer to trade you to another car for no cost! Well probably not, but you never know your luck. Wink

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hog
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Qatar & Cornwall

2009 Porsche 997 GT2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my knowledge of RMS technology [not Porsche I hasten to add], they usually start weeping oil due to an increase or rise in crankcase pressure, as the piston rings 'bed-in' and the combustion pressures are allowed a little more past the piston rings and not a mechanical or construction failure of the seal itself - well certainly not at the mileage that guys on this forum are experiencing.

Possibly the indies are working on or have figured a fix by improving the crankcase eduction design. i.e. making the crankcase breather or ventilation better. A lot of engines have suffered similar problems as the manufacturers strive to make old designs comply with ever tighter emission regs - Euro 1V & now Euro V.


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Tiptronic
Shanghai


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 4685



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hog you sound like you know your stuff, what do you do, your not a secret spy for Porsche are you Wink

Daz

AKA

Bond


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Shed17
Montreal


Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 567



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The RMS issue is the seal itself and the design of the engine in that Porsche are on to about the 5th modification and there is now a new tool released to fit the seal about another 5mm further in. The main problem is the manufacture of the liners which crack and this results in major engine failure.

Of course this is all conjecture because there is nothing wrong with the M96 engine which just happens to be used in the Boxster/996/997. So go figure if a manufacturer will admit there is a problem when this is the engine that they use across their entire range of sports cars.

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Porsche
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 12736
Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Shed17 on 26 April 2006

The RMS issue is the seal itself and the design of the engine in that Porsche are on to about the 5th modification and there is now a new tool released to fit the seal about another 5mm further in. The main problem is the manufacture of the liners which crack and this results in major engine failure.Of course this is all conjecture because there is nothing wrong with the M96 engine which just happens to be used in the Boxster/996/997. So go figure if a manufacturer will admit there is a problem when this is the engine that they use across their entire range of sports cars.


indeed, tracking a car seems to have no bearing on the position..... as there are still enough cars out there without the problem...

but compared to other manufacturers we seem to be still doing well for overall reliability, at least it's not like TVR where they (not usre if they still) make you sign an agreement when buying new that you accept the car is hand made and thus can break down, etc Confused

although at this point some wise words from Mark Pearce is needed who knows a bit about RMS !




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Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 3658



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking of Mr Pearce, where is he? Not seen him around for a few days - hope he is well and PAG have not visited him or put a gagging order on him because of the warranty words on his web site.

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Tiptronic
Shanghai


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 4685



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will all have a visit tomorow from some goons at this rate

Daz


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Dijon


Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 7590



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Speed Freak on 26 April 2006

We will all have a visit tomorow from some goons at this rate

Daz

Anything for a bit of excitment! Wink

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Tiptronic
Shanghai


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 4685



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, they will probably be from Piston Heads Wink

Only kidding

Daz


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911Silverback
Nürburgring


Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 457



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by hog on 26 April 2006



Possibly the indies are working on or have figured a fix by improving the crankcase eduction design. i.e. making the crankcase breather or ventilation better. A lot of engines have suffered similar problems as the manufacturers strive to make old designs comply with ever tighter emission regs - Euro 1V & now Euro V.



Ala the latest design of GT3 RMS is a modification comes with a new crankcase breather system, (from PMS) worth an extra 5/8hp and so far no reported failures!!

...rob


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hog
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Qatar & Cornwall

2009 Porsche 997 GT2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they're bringing out a tool to push the rms in to the c/case a further 5mm then that has shades of accelerated crankshaft wear area and they want to push the seal in to ride on an unworn area of the crank. A popular fix for other engine manufacturers is to fit a wear ring onto the crank end and install a new seal with slightly higher lip tension and/or different material. Although it has been known for oil to weep between the crank and the wear ring.

I know about the cracked liners and the leaks from the intermediate shaft & enjoy reading the engine rebuild articles in 911 & Porker Wurld.

Daz, do you think maybe I should send my c.v. to Dr. Ing h.c. F. Porsche AG??? Sounds like they need some help in the engineering department!

Day job: Engineering Pimp & part time pig farmer.


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Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 3658



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by hog on 26 April 2006

I know about the cracked liners and the leaks from the intermediate shaft & enjoy reading the engine rebuild articles in 911 & Porker Wurld.

So Hog, tell us more about the intermediate shaft. As my intermediate shaft seal has gone, I'm intrigued.

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Carrera
Estoril


Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 3642
Location: In a village far far away


PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also Hog, if you could tell us, weather there could be a permanant fix to the problems possible short of replacing the engine?

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hog
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Qatar & Cornwall

2009 Porsche 997 GT2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intermediate shaft sits below the crankshaft in a boxer engine and could probably be better understood if it was called a balancer shaft. Autofarm now produce an intermediate shaft with modified splines to take a custom made lip seal & toothed sprocket so that the latest type cam chain and tensioner can be used. Its claimed that the engine also runs a lot quiter then.

List price for the modified intermediate shaft is 881.33. Exchange short engine starts at 4406.25. Might be worth giving them a ring on 01865 331234.


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Carrera
Estoril


Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 3642
Location: In a village far far away


PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Hog. I wonder why Porsche hadn't come up with the answer! But then they'll have to admit to the problem first!

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hog
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Qatar & Cornwall

2009 Porsche 997 GT2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL Laughing

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Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 3658



PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by hog on 26 April 2006

LOL Laughing

LOFL Sad

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Tiptronic
Shanghai


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 4685



PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hog,

Did I read that right, pimp, pig farmer Very Happy

When you work yourself up to sheep give me a shout.

Daz


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