Welcome to 911UK
The only place for Porsche, 911uk is the definitive enthusiast and resource site for the Porsche 911.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so join up today for full access to the site and benefit from latest member offers.

Porsche Classifieds
Sell Your Porsche on 911uk
Create a Free Classified Advert
Search Ads
Classified Adverts FAQ
Trade Classified Information
Buyer & Seller Fraud Protection
Consumer Rights Act
Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI)
Porsche Car Sourcing
Porsche Cars Wanted
Official Porsche Centre Reviews
Model
Stock
Porsche 911
992 : 2019- 0
991 : 2011- 22
997 : 2004- 69
996 : 1997-2005 32
993 : 1993-1998 5
964 : 1989-1993 2
Carrera 3.2 : 1983-1989 3
Carrera SC : 1977-1983 2
930 Turbo : 1975-1989 1
Early 911 : 1964-1977 1
Porsche Other Models
Classic : 1950-1965 0
Boxster : 1997- 31
Cayman : 2005- 21
Cayenne : 2003- 5
Macan : 2014- 5
Panamera : 2009- 0
912-914-924-928-944-968 1
959 - CarreraGT - RaceCar 0
Car Parts For Sale & Wanted
Other Items For Sale & Wanted
Wheels Tyres For Sale & Wanted
Number Plates For Sale Wanted

Porsche Services
Porsche Body Shop Repair
Paint Protection & Wrapping
Porsche Classic Insurance
Porsche Classic Parts
Porsche Classic Restoration
Porsche Design Collection
Porsche Engine Gearbox Rebuild
Porsche Heritage & History
Porsche News
Porsche Picture Gallery
Win a New Porsche 911

Porsche Parts
Body Parts, Body Styling
Brakes, Clearance
Electrical, Exhausts
Engine Cooling, Engine Electrical
Engine Rebuild, Heating Cooling
Interior Incar, Lighting
Rubber Seals, Service Parts
Steering, Suspension
Transmission, Workshop Tools
Early 911, 911 - 930, 928 - 968
964 - 993, 996 - 997, Boxster
Cayman, Cayenne, Panamera

Porsche Model Range
911 [992] 2018-Current
Porsche 911 [992]
911 [991] 2011-2019
Porsche 911 [991]
911 [997] 2004-2012
Porsche 911 [997]
911 [GT] GT1-GT2-GT3
Porsche 911 [GT]
911 [996] 1997-2005
Porsche 911 [996]
911 [993] 1993-1998
Porsche 911 [993]
911 [RS] RS-RSR
Porsche 911 [RS]
911 [964] 1989-1993
Porsche 911 [964]
911 3.2 1983-1989
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera
911 SC 1977-1983
Porsche 911 SC
911 [Early] 1964-1977
Porsche 911 [Early]
Boxster & Cayman
Porsche Boxster & Cayman
Cayenne & Panamera
Porsche Cayenne & Panamera

911uk Site Partners

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
Parts
Dijon


Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 7590



PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alison, sorry to hear no joy - but they weren't going to fold after a few letters. Obviously under the sales of goods act, as he says the burden of proof is now on you, but the other bit of that legislation says " That the goods must be of satisfactory quality". Your argument would be that 68K is not satisfactory. Which of course it is not, because most porsches go well past 100K.

Of course you are going to have to prove that you did not "misuse" the car.

Good luck


Migration info. Legacy thread was 54385
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Alison McConnell
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Bournemouth


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that I think is quite interesting about the M96 engine fiasco is that Porsche hasn't sued anyone for libel or slander in response to the criticism of its engine. If, as they claim, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and the failures are isolated incidents, then wouldn't you expect them to be outraged and to strenuously defend the quality of their product; its not as though they can't afford to take it to court? Is their lack of action because they know that they would lose the case in court, because the engine is genuinely flawed?

Anyway, here's an update on my car saga.

I've discovered that my 996 is already on its second engine - the origianl one failed during its first year (1999) and was replaced under warranty, so this will make it the third engine. Tell me how this is acceptable for a prestige car that cost four times what my Renault Scenic did? The Scenic is still going strong on nothing more than consumables at 120k miles! Its a crap drive, but you can't knock the value for money.

It seems that even if they supplied their new cars with a spare, the 996 would need at least two. but I'm really beating myself up about the financial suicide I will be commiting if I walk away from this car after spending a best part of 15k to get is up and running again. Maybe the bad taste will subside, or someone connected with this mess will take pity on me and restore my faith in the brand...'pigs might fly' springs to mind.

Alison

Migration info. Legacy thread was 54572
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
AP90
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 385
Location: Cornwall UK


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an ongoing saga across the porsche discussion forums worldwide. There is clearly an engineering fault with this engine, when you pay 45k for a used car from an authorised dealer i would expect to see 10 years from such a vehicle. With porsche, you are paying for quality engineering not creature comforts (people always comment on how 'Basic' my 993 is!), so on a 996, where is that quality?? 996 die hards are saying that this is a very rare occurrence, but there is all evidence to the contrary, i personally, would not be happy with a 996 as i feel, as Alison has mentioned, they have this 'Time bomb' feeling about them there is nothing worse than a performance vehicle with an unreliable power plant.
I had a 964 and I read all about the engines faults.........and sure enough it packed up, on the bottom end, but it hadn't been well maintained so it was kinda understandable, but a little dissapointing from a "quality" engine. But that was, a 19k, well and truly "used" car bought by a novice, not a 45k main dealer "assured" car.
I often discuss this with the guys at my Specialist and all the mechanics and managers say how poor the engineering is on the early 996's and boxters are, but nowadays, and i think this is applicable to Mercedes and BMW, it's all about "bean counting' and not quality.

Shame.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 54574
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Alison McConnell
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Bournemouth


PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The news from my 'brief' gives some cause for slight optimism. He has found a case from the 1980s relating to Range Rover that may be helpful. The judge found in favour of the owner under the Sale of Goods Act because he believed that the name Range Rover justifiably created some preconceptions about quality in the mind of the purchaser that were not matched by the performance of the product. He's going to send a letter to the OPC (who have remained intransigent throughout, and not replied al all to the email that I sent a week ago) pointing out the case law and we'll see what happens. Still not holding my breath. In the meantime, I can't hang around and wait for them to do the right thing, because car sharing with my partner is a nightmare.

I have spent much of the last week looking at my options with respect to releasing the equity that's tied up in my car. The worst proposition I had was from a dealer who offered to take the car off my hands for 10k. The best is from RSJ (the company I was originally going to buy the 996TT from) who have made a much more generous offer on my non-runner in PX for the 996TT. Joel at RSJ had been a complete 'gent' about the whole thing and has really tried to do his best for me. The upshot is that it would be financial suicide for me to do anything other then accept Joel's offer, so all being well, I will be going ahead with my 996TT purchase....I just couldn't find another way out of it, even though I'm still really hacked of the Porsche for the way that they are treating their customers over this engine fault. Thankfully, the 996TT has an entirely different engine to the standard 996 AND I will take out a warranty, because I can't afford not to!

On the subject of warranties, I also discovered that Porsche probably insure themselves against the cost of repairs under warranty - the risk actually appears to be taken by Car Care Plan (Black Horse Warranties). That explains why Porsche don't mind handing out warranties on cars they know will need a new engine every 40k miles. I wonder how long it will take before the warranty company get wise to what Porsche are doing?

Anyway, I hope that everyone has a great weekend.

Alison

Migration info. Legacy thread was 56179
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Tiptronic
Shanghai


Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 4685



PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The plot thickens

Daz


Migration info. Legacy thread was 56186
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 3657



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alison, I picked up a copy of the warranty brochure yesterday and it is now insured by XL Insurance Company Ltd, XL House, 70 Gracechurch Street, London EC3V 0XL.

I don't know if Porsche GB have changed their insurers or not but I guess they shop around in the same way as everyone else.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 56198
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Porsche
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 12735
Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Alison McConnell on 28 April 2006

I have spent much of the last week looking at my options with respect to releasing the equity that's tied up in my car. The worst proposition I had was from a dealer who offered to take the car off my hands for 10k. The best is from RSJ (the company I was originally going to buy the 996TT from) who have made a much more generous offer on my non-runner in PX for the 996TT. Joel at RSJ had been a complete 'gent' about the whole thing and has really tried to do his best for me. The upshot is that it would be financial suicide for me to do anything other then accept Joel's offer, so all being well, I will be going ahead with my 996TT purchase....I just couldn't find another way out of it, even though I'm still really hacked of the Porsche for the way that they are treating their customers over this engine fault. Thankfully, the 996TT has an entirely different engine to the standard 996 AND I will take out a warranty, because I can't afford not to!


but surely getting the car fixed then getting a warranty is tens of thousand cheaper the trading up to a 996TT ???

Confused


Migration info. Legacy thread was 56223

_________________
Porsche on Youtube!

964 Project Car
996 MK2 GT3 CS Manthey
993 Targa
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Rob J
Sepang


Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 2912
Location: Dorset / Kazakhstan


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:

Quote: Originally posted by Alison McConnell on 28 April 2006

Thankfully, the 996TT has an entirely different engine to the standard 996 AND I will take out a warranty, because I can't afford not to!On the subject of warranties, I also discovered that Porsche probably insure themselves against the cost of repairs under warranty - the risk actually appears to be taken by Car Care Plan (Black Horse Warranties). That explains why Porsche don't mind handing out warranties on cars they know will need a new engine every 40k miles. I wonder how long it will take before the warranty company get wise to what Porsche are doing?Anyway, I hope that everyone has a great weekend.Alison


Alison are you going to be getting a Porsche warranty? If not suggest you might like to do some research over on PistonHeads. I'll PM you why so as not to contravene certain rules.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 56236

_________________
GT3, Boxster S, Panamera Turbo S, RRS, ElanSE

"some of us were born to GT3's the rest of you followed"
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 3657



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Rob J on 29 April 2006

Previous poster wrote:


Alison are you going to be getting a Porsche warranty? If not suggest you might like to do some research over on PistonHeads. I'll PM you why so as not to contravene certain rules.


I'd be interested in that too Rob, unless it's just a turbo thing.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 56240
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
John Maddox
Newbie


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 27
Location: New Forest


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you seen today's Saturday Telegraph Motoring Section (Honest John Page).

Ask your lawer about a Small Claims Court Action (up to 5k now) as it may get a response from PAG.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 56325
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Seagull
Estoril


Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 3657



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by John Maddox on 29 April 2006

Have you seen today's Saturday Telegraph Motoring Section (Honest John Page).

Ask your lawer about a Small Claims Court Action (up to 5k now) as it may get a response from PAG.

Hi John and welcome to the forum. Haven't seen the article - I was too busy cleaning the car today to get a paper - but, unfortunately, 5k would only buy half of a 996 engine.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 56326
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
John Maddox
Newbie


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 27
Location: New Forest


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you never know what their reaction may be...

Migration info. Legacy thread was 56340
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Alison McConnell
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Bournemouth


PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John,

Seagul - I am already considering the small claims process, as 5k is better than the current slap in the face that Porsche has given me thus far. I also want to be a complete pain in the ar*e to them. Thanks also for the lead on the warranties - maybe Black Horse have got wise to Porsche quality problems and refused to cover their extended warranties any longer. I will try both suppliers and avoid going via Porsche if I can help it.

Sundeep - rebuilding the engine would be cheaper in the short term, but to do a good job for the long term it would have worked out more expensive + I was ready for a new car, and being stuck with the old one for another couple of years would have been very disappointing. Finally, the rebuild option would have left me without a car for some weeks to come, and I really need a car right now.

ATB guys,

Alison

Migration info. Legacy thread was 56369
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
obzi
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 111



PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stories like this make my blood boil, Porsche need to realise that it's much easier to keep our loyalty than to find new customers and they are not doing that.

Thousands of people read this forum, as existing owners we are an ideal market but bad news travels fast and they should be trying to keep us happy

My C4s cost my 44k and in two years i will be looking at the 100k plus price bracket, i love my C4s but my feelings at the moment are to go elsewhere.

Porsche people if by any chance your reading this, the cost to you to sort Allison out is negligible, by ignoring her and others you are losing customers like me with big money to spend.

Your move.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 56494
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Parts
Dijon


Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 7590



PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by obzi on 01 May 2006

Stories like this make my blood boil, Porsche need to realise that it's much easier to keep our loyalty than to find new customers and they are not doing that.

Thousands of people read this forum, as existing owners we are an ideal market but bad news travels fast and they should be trying to keep us happy

My C4s cost my 44k and in two years i will be looking at the 100k plus price bracket, i love my C4s but my feelings at the moment are to go elsewhere.

Porsche people if by any chance your reading this, the cost to you to sort Allison out is negligible, by ignoring her and others you are losing customers like me with big money to spend.

Your move.

And there are quite a few threads on here at the moment that are suggesting alternatives!

Migration info. Legacy thread was 56495
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
anthony Ansell
Newbie


Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alison,

I am experiencing the same problem with my 2000 996. I have been in touch with Porsche UK customer services and am waiting their response but having read your account to date I am not hopeful.

In anticipation of a negative response from Porsche I have written to Jeremy Clarkson at Top Gear. The purpose was to try and encourage someone in the public eye to make this matter public and maybe shame Porsche into dealing with this problem fairly. They say that this problem only occurs in a minority of their cars and should therefore be able to meet the cost.

I am arranging to have my engine rebuilt by Autofarm who have developed a product called silsleeve which not only rectifies the problem but strengthens the engine to avoid a repeat. In the process they are able to upgrade a 3.4 engine to 3.7. Apart from solving the problem and getting better performance from the car it occured to me that the greater performance which can be identified as having been achieved by Autofarm is likely to reflect on the value of the vehicle thus recovering some of the cost. The total cost of Autofarm's rebuild is less than a new engine from Porsche and at the end of the day will be a better unit.

Hope this helps.

T.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 57118
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Alison McConnell
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Bournemouth


PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Anthony,

Sorry to hear that you have been through the same nightmare with your 996 - its an awful experience. How many miles had your engine done? Mine was on its second engine, so I estimate that the current one had done about 58k. If you need some moral support in any of your campaigning, please feel free to get in touch. I have to say, I don't think Porsche can be shamed into anything - they just don't give a dam, because people like Clarkson just tell everyone about how fantastic the cars are to drive (which they are), and not about how poorly Porsche treats its customers - you don't become the most profitable car company be treating customers with respect, you do it by creaming them for every penny you can get, and putting profit before anything else.

On the subject of rebuilds - I considered the Autofarm option, but in the end, the cash cost of PXing my car as a non-runner against a 996TT was lower + I would always have felt disappointed with the car, so it was time to let go.

Porsche UK will shift the responsibility to the OPC that you bought the car from, and then you're into the realms of arguing with them over the terms of the Sale of Goods Act. My solicitor is drafting a letter to my OPC today pointing out the issues relating to the Act. If all else fails, I am considering the small claims court to try to recover some of my losses (5k is the maximum through small claims).

Good luck Anthony, and keep in touch with any news of your progress with Porsche.

ATB,

Alison

Migration info. Legacy thread was 57119
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
anthony Ansell
Newbie


Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alison,

The letter I have sent to Clarkson was constructed in a manner which would massage his ego in an effort to encourage him to stand by the critical whatever policy he portrays. I take your point but considered that it was worth a try. Anyway the contents of the letter made me feel slightly better for a while and I might just duplicate it and send it to every publication I can think of to enhance that feeling of addressing the unjust.

I also have a Boxter 3.2s and now wonder how long it will be before that faulters because I don't imagine that Autofarm do the same job on that engine for no reason . The 996 has done 52k and the Boxter 45k. I have even considered selling both of them once the 996 is sorted and getting something else, but what ?

I will let you know how I go on with customer services and I will keep tuned in to see how you progress.

Good luck with your claim.

T.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 57126
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Alison McConnell
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Bournemouth


PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The numbers are beginning to add up here.

This fault is now coming to light in 1998/9 cars that are on their second engines (like mine) and 2000 cars that are on their first. It seems like Porsche put a sticking plaster on the problem in 1999, and their fix has made the engines good for about 50k instead of the 10k on the early engines. This is the tip of an iceberg that Porsche want to keep buried.

I know what you mean about wnating to get out of owning a Porsche, but what do you replace it with? If I could afford a AM V8, I'd dump Porsche in a heart beat...only a couple of years to wait, and a second had one will be within reach....

Alison

Migration info. Legacy thread was 57149
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
   
Parts
Dijon


Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 7590



PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Alison McConnell on 04 May 2006

I know what you mean about wnating to get out of owning a Porsche, but what do you replace it with? If I could afford a AM V8, I'd dump Porsche in a heart beat...only a couple of years to wait, and a second had one will be within reach....Alison

I'm with you on the second hand AM V8, had a test drive last week - but 85K is a bit steep for me at the moment! Hopefully my 2001 996 will last long enough!

Migration info. Legacy thread was 57163
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum