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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Vmax 9ff 911 Turbo 1800HP Crash Reply with quote

a very strange accident


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Windy101
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very strange piece of driving.
 
  
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HSC911
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Due to short braking area rather than crap driving, IF that is what you guys mean by strange Sad

Poor car nooo

Hope they build a bigger and better one soon Thumb
 
  
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squelch
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSC911 wrote:
Due to short braking area rather than crap driving, IF that is what you guys mean by strange Sad

Depends on your definition of crap driving I guess - I'm not sure I'd want to try for vmax without knowing how much room I have.

HSC911 wrote:
Hope they build a bigger and better one soon Thumb

And have a closer look at stopping distances required before a run.

The vid states that 530m braking zone is too short to slow down from 270kph. Similarly (or not) my 20m long driveway is too short to slow down from 70mph which is why (among other reasons) I don't enter my driveway at 70mph.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squelch wrote:
The vid states that 530m braking zone is too short to slow down from 270kph. Similarly (or not) my 20m long driveway is too short to slow down from 70mph which is why (among other reasons) I don't enter my driveway at 70mph.


Floor Floor Floor Floor Floor Floor
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kozzi
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the way they tape everything up and. 250lb Guy then gets in. Just swap him out with a 150lb guy and bobs ya uncle - yiu can brake
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AdeD
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSC911 wrote:
Due to short braking area rather than crap driving


Plenty of other guys managed to stop just fine, if you watch the video he goes past the finish markers, pops it in neutral, coasts a bit then brakes and attempts to corner while still in neutral... All of this without doing a build up run first to check braking distances etc. In this instance it's 100% driver error.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AdeD wrote:
HSC911 wrote:
Due to short braking area rather than crap driving


Plenty of other guys managed to stop just fine, if you watch the video he goes past the finish markers, pops it in neutral, coasts a bit then brakes and attempts to corner while still in neutral... All of this without doing a build up run first to check braking distances etc. In this instance it's 100% driver error.


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911tom
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Completely agree. 100% driver error. My old 996 stopped no problem. Ideally they could do with more run off for added safety but I could easily slow my car from 215mph at the brake boards to a sensible cornering speed in 2/3 of the braking area.
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116618LN
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree, to ask you to emergency brake from over 200mph is stupid. The braking distance is definitely too short.

Yes you can brake from 210mph, but not safely.
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Disco
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

116618LN wrote:
I disagree, to ask you to emergency brake from over 200mph is stupid. The braking distance is definitely too short.

Yes you can brake from 210mph, but not safely.


That is of course an absurd statement. Nobody is asking anybody to "emergency brake" - simply there is a course of finite length to be negotiated and the driver has to do so within the capabilities of the car. More to the point - if the car is unsafe to brake from any given speed that it is able to reach then that is an unsafe design compromise in the car, not a factor of the course. For example, a GT2RS can drop the anchor as hard as you like from any speed that it can reach whereas something like an old Nissan 200SX really cannot. As such it fundamentally becomes a task for the driver to mitigate and risk manage.

If the driver is competent then they will assess how much space that the car they are driving needs to stop and make sure that they bring their speed down in plenty of time. Especially on a first run. If you have built (or commissioned) a car that needs to coast before you can drop the anchor (such as something with uneven aerodynamic balance, incorrect brake bias or inappropriate suspension characteristics) then it falls to driver competence to shut down with enough space to decelerate safely.

The course is a constant, not a variable. Consequently running out of road can only ever be driver error. It is not like he came round a blind bend to find it freshly laid with hailstones half way around (yeah - I know someone that happened to). Judge
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HSC911
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed

270kmh is only 167mph Surprised

so half a km is quite a lot of tarmac Drive

Someone me Sad
 
  
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911tom
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

116618LN wrote:
I disagree, to ask you to emergency brake from over 200mph is stupid. The braking distance is definitely too short.

Yes you can brake from 210mph, but not safely.


Thing is having been there I can tell you it’s not an emergency brake from higher speeds. You really need to build up the speed through the day to work out how quickly the car stops and reacts under braking. You can comfortably do 15 runs+ in the day so why not take time and build the speed. Having said that 175mph is not a very high speed at this venue.
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116618LN
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having also been there, and being told by the organiser in front of everyone at the brief to hard brake almost like an emergency stop is ridiculous. Everyone moaned about the braking distance.

Building up the speed throughout the day and still finding it hard to stop.

Vmax at 210mph running R888R with upgraded brake fluid in my 997.

I decided not to run any higher boost due to stopping issues. Will not attend again.


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patpending
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy just wrung it out a bit too long. At that speed it’s difficult to calculate stopping distances.

On hindsight a big post with “ brake” on it next to the tarmac would have helped for those getting near 200mph.

OMG was that thing rapid or what 😳
 
  
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patpending
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

116618LN wrote:
I disagree, to ask you to emergency brake from over 200mph is stupid. The braking distance is definitely too short.

Yes you can brake from 210mph, but not safely.


Correct - you have to feather the pedal to brush off the velocity otherwise you load up the front of a 911 too much which totally screws up the back end to such an extent that your underpants could rapidly turn a shade of brown at high speed.
 
  
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996ttalot
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is enough braking if you know what you are doing - yes not as much area as at brunters but plenty enough. Here is braking from one of our 9e cars at 227gps (mph) in the wet ! You could certainly do it in 450metres in the dry without sweat.

The guy screwed up / he didn’t brake at the right point and hard enough and zero reason to waste time putting it into neutral. Totally his fault.

The technique is to firmly hit the pedal for a few seconds to scrub off the main speed and keep control and then release slightly, whilst still applying pressure, and then back on again - you never continue to apply more and more pressure. You can see this in the negative g force in the image.

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116618LN
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The average participant at vmax does not know what they are doing, and it is usually their first time at any speed like that. Apparently myself included lol.
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996ttalot
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

116618LN wrote:
The average participant at vmax does not know what they are doing, and it is usually their first time at any speed like that. Apparently myself included lol.


Which is why Craig tells people to not go balls out first run / build up gradually. This guy didn’t. He should have gone though at 200 first and braked to make sure the distance.

The braking technique is something we practiced and learnt at brunters over hundreds and hundreds of laps. Don’t come off the throttle and slam on the brakes but do get on the brakes quickly and firmly - it is a lot easier to brake hard from 150mph against 230mph, hence scrub off the high speed first.

What I have seen even sitting with customers is the inability to recognise that you are still doing 100mph and the bend is coming - that is simply down to 100 feels stationery compared to 200 that you were doing a few seconds before and the adrenaline is still high.
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kurlykris
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the phrase is " all the gear and no idea " Grin

Quite why you would put the 911 in Neutral at that speed and then get on the brakes late with a bend looming is beyond me Dont know
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