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Andyvvc
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Joined: 20 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:06 am    Post subject: 996T - failed MOT (brake pipe over transmission) - options? Reply with quote

After nearly 6 years of ownership the annoying big bill looms for the brake pipe(s?) that connect front to back over the tiptronic transmission.

I don't think the copper pipe(s) are too expensive, but labour is going to see the bill run to £900+ i think.

The ends of the pipe that connect into the front and rear sections of pipework are the bits that have failed the MOT. Can these be cut out at all and replaced? Or the whole pipe swapped in favour of a braided solution that can be threaded above the gearbox without needing to drop it?

I'm happy to get it sorted with the full copper part + dropping gearbox etc. But if there's an alternative that might save some £££ - that may be an option for me.


Cheers
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Alex
Le Mans
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're using copper (cunifer) I thought the job was doable without dropping anything. Should only be a couple hundred quid tops.
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Andyvvc
Nürburgring


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex - I found an older thread here: sounds awkward to replace: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131824&highlight=brake+line+gearbox

Or is there possibly an option (as i think DeMort suggests) to cut off the corroded sections at the visible joins and then flange a new section on?
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Alex
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up to you, but the rest of the pipe will need doing at some point if you do the cut and shut method.

As demort says - fiddly but doable.
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Andyvvc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Discs and pads all need replacing too (scraped thru last year on the MOT as did the pipe, but I haven't driven the car much since so not been too concerned about the brakes)

I think i will have to bite the bullet and get the large pipe replaced in it's entirety. The car is nearly 16 years old and as you point out Alex, the rest of the pipe (that can't be seen) probably isn't in great condition either lol!

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Rhodris-dad
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2015 Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 10 years ago I had an american truck and there was a brake pipe that was about 12 ft long. It was rotten at one end, so failed an MOT. Because I knew I would not be able to buy a replacement pipe (no parts supplier would import them) I asked the tester if I could cut the rotten section out and just add another joint.

The answer was a firm "NO".......no explanation why. I did not wan't to p*ss him off arguing my case, otherwise I would be chancing my arm at another garage with possibly the same result.

To this day, I am none the wiser why he refused to let me do it Dont know


On the 996 I had, the pipe that you are discussing was replaced at engine rebuild time.
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sportsandclassic
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Those brake lines over the engine are a real problem on the 996/997 cars.

We are doing them very regularly and some require the gearbox to be removed and other require the engine to come out.
The front to rear lines are also susceptible to corrosion.

We always install new Porsche lines and treat the new parts with a good coating of wax.

Had a few recovered in with failed brakes due to bursting.

Mike
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Andyvvc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all! The car is a keeper and owes me nothing from when i purchased her nearly 6 years ago.

This is the first 'big' service item bill. Not wholly unexpected - and by the sounds of it needs to be done correctly and properly to avoid any future problems (well, at least for another 16 years lol!)

Indy has said they will probably need to drop the gearbox off the engine to route the pipe - so this does sound like an awkward part to replace. I don't think the engine will be coming out (but might be dropped on its mounts a bit if needed).

Anything else worth checking/replacing while this is done?

Ta!
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GMG
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...had mine replaced during my engine rebuild...if it were me I would drop the engine and replace a few bits (AOS for example) whilst in there...will be attractive (or should be) when you sell it...
 
  
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deMort
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The correct way is drop the engine and replace it .. sometimes it's possible to do a cut and join .. it all depends on where it's actually corroded .

Again budget plays a part but if we can,t get at it or have a long enough straight part to join to then it can't be done ... the tool to flair the pipe needs a couple of inches of straight brake pipe to clamp to .. otherwise we can't flair a new end to do a cut/join.

Rule of thumb .. the pipe over the engine / box never corrodes at the top section .. at least not that i've seen and that's due to not much water gets at it there ,

usual place for Any brake pipe is in a bracket holding it to the body .. water will and does collect in these and stay there for a while .. hence it rots them in these areas .

Dropping an engine then leads onto what else to do whilst its out .. a good look at the coolant pipes is a must .
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Last edited by deMort on Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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sportsandclassic
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...had mine replaced during my engine rebuild...if it were me I would drop the engine and replace a few bits (AOS for example) whilst in there...will be attractive (or should be) when you sell it...


No oil/air separated on the turbo engines. If manual gearbox you can leave engine in.
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Martin996RSR
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I replaced short corroded sections in my rear brake pipe soon after getting the car and it then passsed the MOT. These sections weren't too hard to do and cost about £30 in cunifer and unions. I did the job myself because I could.

Later in my ownership, the clutch wore out, so whilst I had the gearbox out to do the job, I did a few 'while you're in there' jobs, such as a new RMS, new flywheel, and I replaced the whole over-gearbox brake line to make it a single peice of cunifer. Using OEM steel brake lines is great from an originality POV, but they will eventually corrode again just like the first lot. If you use cunifer then they'll last more or less forever.
 
  
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g911omr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the usual areas of corrosion easily visible? I'm wondering if it is possible to treat the pipes before they start to go?
 
  
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Martin996RSR
Nürburgring


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
Use a wax protection product like Sports&Classic suggests and you'll greatly extend the life of the pipes.

The parts to protect are any part that sees water & salt from the road. This means any part in the wheel wells, any part along the underneath, including the bits covered by the underbody covers, and also the short hard pipes that run from the flexi pipes to the calipers.
 
  
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NedHan79
Montreal


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. That’s my thread that has been high lighted. My mot was up in June. Since then I’ve stated digging as I knew the brake pipes had gone. Atm I’ve not got near the brake pipes yet but I have cut out and fabricated most of my inner and outer sills, sections at the rear of the arches and now I’m cutting out the arches and making them. I will be stripping back a lot of the under seal to sort any “not great” bits and them I’ll worry about dropping the engine and box. I’ll probably replace all the brake pipes, flexis and anything else that dosnt look great in the suspension as well as clutch, rims etc.

All because of a rotten brake pipe Floor
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NedHan79
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and a full coat of paint. Almost forgot that inexpensive detail Floor
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Jay.
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Joined: 20 Oct 2015
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Location: Brize Norton


PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NedHan79 wrote:
Hi. That’s my thread that has been high lighted. My mot was up in June. Since then I’ve stated digging as I knew the brake pipes had gone. Atm I’ve not got near the brake pipes yet but I have cut out and fabricated most of my inner and outer sills, sections at the rear of the arches and now I’m cutting out the arches and making them. I will be stripping back a lot of the under seal to sort any “not great” bits and them I’ll worry about dropping the engine and box. I’ll probably replace all the brake pipes, flexis and anything else that dosnt look great in the suspension as well as clutch, rims etc.

All because of a rotten brake pipe Floor


It'll be worth it once you finish it!!
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NedHan79
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope so jay. There’s some work involved
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Andyvvc
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit the bullet. Had the pipe replaced.
Along with discs and pads all round (last changed in 2014 so not too bad!)
Brake fluid change
MOT
New front drop links (clunking from front of car when driving)
Replaced a few fuses for sidelights too which were apparently not working

I had hoped the discs might be skimable, but the MOT report said they were corroded badly on the inside and worn too thin to save with a skim.

On the plus side, the car doesn't knock anymore and the brakes feel a LOT sharper than they did before lol

And i have a shiny new pipe that i can't even see lol!
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NedHan79
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bits you can’t see are always the most hassle. frustrated

Glad your sorted Thumb
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