Starting The Search For A 997.1 C2S - Hartech Rebuilt

MEames · 3 Jun 2019

Hello all, wasn't sure if this should go in the wanted area but thought it more discussion based for now and a little introduction.

A brief bit of background story... owning a 911 has been my dream for a long time, specifically the 997.1 as it was current when I passed my test back in 2005 and blends a modern interior with the classic round headlights, naturally aspirated engine and compact size.

I've posted a little more about this on Pistonheads here for those interested.

MOD EDIT, this is not Pistonheads

In short i've been pondering this seriously for the last 3 years but needed to get a few other important things in place (a. buy a house b. get married c. make sure I can afford it) and in that time I've managed to get together 50% of a proposed £20k budget.

Now I appreciate this isn't a fortune in Porsche circles but I'm realistic in expecting a higher mileage car that needs a little refresh, clean but not perfect and ideal to use and enjoy.

I'm comfortable with buying and maintaining one myself, don't need to rely on it every day (though will use it regularly) and aim never to sell it.

What I can't afford is to pay for an engine rebuild, it would push me over the edge financially at the moment and probably negatively affect how I felt about the car, so I am only looking for examples that have had a full closed deck conversion to both banks to negate the big risk with these.... my other thoughts are as below:

997.1 Carrera 2S
Manual Gearbox
Silver or Grey Paintwork
Black Leather Interior
Not Written Off, No Major Body Damage
Standard Body (no GT3 Replica's) And No Real Modifications
Full Hartech Rebuild As Above

Ideally with Lobster Claw's, Sports Wheel, Heated Seats & No Sports Chrono... but I can work around these minor points

_________

I've been looking casually for a while but they don't seem to appear all that regularly with engine work disclosed... but i've noticed that a lot of the have been sitting on the market and asking prices are getting lower overall.

I'm working on it taking 12 months for me to find something right... what I don't really know is the best place to find a good one?

I can't afford to pay a dealer margin, much as I understand the benefits of buying that way (plus I'd rather meet the previous owner and arrange an independent pre-purchase inspection).

It's been mentioned elsewhere that Hartech are usually working on a number of these M97 engines at any one time but I guess the owners of the cars they go into hang onto them?

_______

I've been down the route of looking at the below on the basis of lower cost and discounted them all in turn.

996 - Interior too dated for me, plus I don't fit all that well as I'm long legged and struggle with the lack of rake adjustment in the steering wheel / high driving position / lower centre console

997.1 Carrera 2 - Probably fine for what I need, but the 3.8 is more common and also has the brakes / xenons / quad exhaust tips / lower suspension that really makes the difference

987 Cayman - Probably a better car for my needs, but not a 911, would only see me looking to upgrade in a few years

986/7 Boxster - see above, plus I have sold the 911 as a 2+2 which will come in handy in the future when we have kids.

997.2 - Too expensive for me to buy / finance

_______

Any thoughts / suggestions / leads welcome

Thanks

Matt

Gray79 · 3 Jun 2019

Hello and good luck with the search.

I personally wouldn't rule out engines rebuilt by other specialists, Hartech are known for been the best, but this doesn't mean others are no good.

Out of interest, why no to sports chrono, it was one of my wants when I was looking? The sport button transforms the way the car drives.

Jam911 · 3 Jun 2019

I would advise you to go and see/drive as many 997's as you can

Alex · 3 Jun 2019

Have you actually driven a 997? I think you'll find the driving position the same as the 996. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Have you not thought of speaking to Hartech and asking them if they can supply you with one? They sometimes purchase customer's cars who can't afford the rebuild, then do the work and sell it on. Worth a stab I'd've thought.

MEames · 3 Jun 2019

Gray79 said:
Hello and good luck with the search.

I personally wouldn't rule out engines rebuilt by other specialists, Hartech are known for been the best, but this doesn't mean others are no good.

Out of interest, why no to sports chrono, it was one of my wants when I was looking? The sport button transforms the way the car drives.

Thanks, I know some other places use Hartech for the close deck modification and then build the rest up themselves, this would be fine also but from my reading it seems that this is the way to go to prevent future issues.

Sports Chrono is an interesting one, I don't feel it integrates all that well on the 997 dash and looks a little bit stuck on - It only works as a stopwatch so is unlikely to ever get used much and would also make it more difficult to convert the car to black faced dials (which I think i prefer)

My understanding is that the C2S has a sport button for the PASM which is standard on the 'S' so on a manual it doesn't really add much.... but on a Tip it changes also the gearbox mapping so probably more worthwhile.

______

It's subtle but when I went to look at some the later car feels quite a bit different...

The wheel moves up to give me more knee and thigh room, I felt the drivers seat can be dropped lower and the doorcards also slimmer to give a bit more space all round.

In the 996 I felt like I was having to lower my head to see down through the wheel at the dials, not uncomfortable but definitely not as good as the 997 which felt more natural.

Alex · 3 Jun 2019

Gray79 said:
I personally wouldn't rule out engines rebuilt by other specialists, Hartech are known for been the best, but this doesn't mean others are no good.

Hartech do modifications to the engines to future proof them that others don't.

Gray79 · 3 Jun 2019

SPORT CHRONO PACKAGE PLUS – A GREAT PORSCHE 997 OPTION

If you're in the market for a used Porsche 997, it's worth looking for one with the optional Sport Chrono Package Plus which, contrary to popular belief, is much more than simply a stopwatch on the dash top.

Part of the Sport Chrono Package is a small button in the centre console marked 'Sport'. Pressing this instantly makes the car feel livelier and more exciting. It does this in a number of ways:

First, it changes the engine management system. The throttle pedal response becomes more sensitive, and the engine is essentially 'remapped' to make it feel more responsive and livelier, although overall power remains unchanged.

Second, if your car has PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management), this is also set to Sport mode, with firmer damping to give even better handling, although you can also set this by pressing the PASM button.

Third, in the case of Tiptronic S transmission, pressing the Sport button changes the automatic gearchange characteristics. Shifts are faster and lower gears are held longer, while lifting off the throttle immediately leads to a down-change. Furthermore, when in manual mode, the transmission will no longer automatically change up a gear as the revs approach the redline – you really do have full control. It makes Tiptronic cars much more fun and, indeed, I wouldn't buy a 997 Tiptronic without Sport Chrono

Finally, pressing the Sport button alters PSM (Porsche Stability Management) so that the trigger threshold is raised so that assistance doesn't kick in as early, allowing you to get more of a feel of what the car's doing during cornering and braking. Yet if you push things too far, PSM will still come to your rescue.

And on top of all that, you also get that chronometer, er, on top of the dash. Again, though, there is much more to this than meets the eye. Controlled by the stalk for the onboard computer, the chronometer is an accurate stopwatch that allows you to time a drive. In addition, it lets you measure intermediate times as well as the total. The large hand on the dial measures seconds, while the two smaller ones show minutes and hours. In addition, a digital display on the dial shows hours and minutes, while the same information also appears on the onboard computer readout in the centre of the dash.

The final benefit of Sport Chrono Package Plus is the ability to allocate personal settings for up to three different ignition keys, so individual drivers can have various functions set to how they like them. This is one of those potentially useful features that the majority of users probably never get around to using, but it is can be genuinely useful. Functions that can be set include the fade-out time for the lights, whether the wipers operate manually or automatically, whether or not the rear wiper operates when reverse gear is selected, automatic door locking, and climate control settings.

So with all the above in mind, you can see why the Sport Chrono Pack Plus is worth sniffing out.

rob_p · 3 Jun 2019

Welcome. Good way to start your search signing up for this forum so well done on that front.
It may just be me but your budget seems ambitious for a hartech engined car and an S.
I though the general consensus was 25-30k for a rebuilt engine.
I have one (which I came to the expensive way) so I am biased!
Happy to be proved wrong... good luck!

Gray79 · 3 Jun 2019

Mine is a C2S manual, with chrono, if you're up Scarborough way at any point I'll take you out in it. The sports button makes a massive difference to the way the throttle responds, also on mine it activates the pse (I don't know if pse is part of sports chrono, or a separate extra).

DucatiRob · 3 Jun 2019

I'm with Rob, I think your budget might be a tad light for a car that's had a 'full' rebuild, a few k more and you might just drop lucky! If, Like me, you have shelled out for the full rebuild (including all the things that would be crazy not to do while the engine is apart) then you will probably be hanging on to it for a while, or be looking for top dollar when it comes to sell. In saying that, you're giving yourself the best chance to bag a bargain if you are prepared to wait it out and work on the search!

Good luck with the search :thumb:

Tobyone · 3 Jun 2019

Gray79 said:
SPORT CHRONO PACKAGE PLUS – A GREAT PORSCHE 997 OPTION

If you're in the market for a used Porsche 997, it's worth looking for one with the optional Sport Chrono Package Plus which, contrary to popular belief, is much more than simply a stopwatch on the dash top.

Part of the Sport Chrono Package is a small button in the centre console marked 'Sport'. Pressing this instantly makes the car feel livelier and more exciting. It does this in a number of ways:

First, it changes the engine management system. The throttle pedal response becomes more sensitive, and the engine is essentially 'remapped' to make it feel more responsive and livelier, although overall power remains unchanged.

Second, if your car has PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management), this is also set to Sport mode, with firmer damping to give even better handling, although you can also set this by pressing the PASM button.

Third, in the case of Tiptronic S transmission, pressing the Sport button changes the automatic gearchange characteristics. Shifts are faster and lower gears are held longer, while lifting off the throttle immediately leads to a down-change. Furthermore, when in manual mode, the transmission will no longer automatically change up a gear as the revs approach the redline – you really do have full control. It makes Tiptronic cars much more fun and, indeed, I wouldn't buy a 997 Tiptronic without Sport Chrono

Finally, pressing the Sport button alters PSM (Porsche Stability Management) so that the trigger threshold is raised so that assistance doesn't kick in as early, allowing you to get more of a feel of what the car's doing during cornering and braking. Yet if you push things too far, PSM will still come to your rescue.

And on top of all that, you also get that chronometer, er, on top of the dash. Again, though, there is much more to this than meets the eye. Controlled by the stalk for the onboard computer, the chronometer is an accurate stopwatch that allows you to time a drive. In addition, it lets you measure intermediate times as well as the total. The large hand on the dial measures seconds, while the two smaller ones show minutes and hours. In addition, a digital display on the dial shows hours and minutes, while the same information also appears on the onboard computer readout in the centre of the dash.

The final benefit of Sport Chrono Package Plus is the ability to allocate personal settings for up to three different ignition keys, so individual drivers can have various functions set to how they like them. This is one of those potentially useful features that the majority of users probably never get around to using, but it is can be genuinely useful. Functions that can be set include the fade-out time for the lights, whether the wipers operate manually or automatically, whether or not the rear wiper operates when reverse gear is selected, automatic door locking, and climate control settings.

So with all the above in mind, you can see why the Sport Chrono Pack Plus is worth sniffing out.

Click to expand...

Well I tell you what, I had no clue at all this could be done.
I have sports chrono plus thingy on my 997.1, gonna get my book out and see what I can do with it. nIce one thats ace that is ta

Gray79 · 3 Jun 2019

Tobyone said:
Gray79 said:

SPORT CHRONO PACKAGE PLUS – A GREAT PORSCHE 997 OPTION

If you're in the market for a used Porsche 997, it's worth looking for one with the optional Sport Chrono Package Plus which, contrary to popular belief, is much more than simply a stopwatch on the dash top.

Part of the Sport Chrono Package is a small button in the centre console marked 'Sport'. Pressing this instantly makes the car feel livelier and more exciting. It does this in a number of ways:

First, it changes the engine management system. The throttle pedal response becomes more sensitive, and the engine is essentially 'remapped' to make it feel more responsive and livelier, although overall power remains unchanged.

Second, if your car has PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management), this is also set to Sport mode, with firmer damping to give even better handling, although you can also set this by pressing the PASM button.

Third, in the case of Tiptronic S transmission, pressing the Sport button changes the automatic gearchange characteristics. Shifts are faster and lower gears are held longer, while lifting off the throttle immediately leads to a down-change. Furthermore, when in manual mode, the transmission will no longer automatically change up a gear as the revs approach the redline – you really do have full control. It makes Tiptronic cars much more fun and, indeed, I wouldn't buy a 997 Tiptronic without Sport Chrono

Finally, pressing the Sport button alters PSM (Porsche Stability Management) so that the trigger threshold is raised so that assistance doesn't kick in as early, allowing you to get more of a feel of what the car's doing during cornering and braking. Yet if you push things too far, PSM will still come to your rescue.

And on top of all that, you also get that chronometer, er, on top of the dash. Again, though, there is much more to this than meets the eye. Controlled by the stalk for the onboard computer, the chronometer is an accurate stopwatch that allows you to time a drive. In addition, it lets you measure intermediate times as well as the total. The large hand on the dial measures seconds, while the two smaller ones show minutes and hours. In addition, a digital display on the dial shows hours and minutes, while the same information also appears on the onboard computer readout in the centre of the dash.

The final benefit of Sport Chrono Package Plus is the ability to allocate personal settings for up to three different ignition keys, so individual drivers can have various functions set to how they like them. This is one of those potentially useful features that the majority of users probably never get around to using, but it is can be genuinely useful. Functions that can be set include the fade-out time for the lights, whether the wipers operate manually or automatically, whether or not the rear wiper operates when reverse gear is selected, automatic door locking, and climate control settings.

So with all the above in mind, you can see why the Sport Chrono Pack Plus is worth sniffing out.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Well I tell you what, I had no clue at all this could be done.
I have sports chrono plus thingy on my 997.1, gonna get my book out and see what I can do with it. nIce one thats ace that is ta

Must admit, I've just been out in the garage playing with the settings for the keys

mind you I need to find something to do whilst her indoors is watching Love Island :boxin:

Steve800 · 3 Jun 2019

My old 997.1 with rebuilt engine (not Hartech) is in Specialist Cars of Malton if you're interested. It ticks all your boxes apart from not being an S. I challenge you to notice this when behind the wheel. You'll have to ring them up to get the price cos they don't put them on adverts or their web site but it will be above your budget. I agree with the above comments regarding your budget limitations.

I can also agree with positive remarks about the Sport settings which mine had. If you're going for it and especially if you are blipping the throttle on down changes you simply need the Sport setting.

Steve.

Gray79 · 3 Jun 2019

Steve800 said:
My old 997.1 with rebuilt engine (not Hartech) is in Specialist Cars of Malton if you're interested. It ticks all your boxes apart from not being an S. I challenge you to notice this when behind the wheel. You'll have to ring them up to get the price cos they don't put them on adverts or their web site but it will be above your budget. I agree with the above comments regarding your budget limitations.

I can also agree with positive remarks about the Sport settings which mine had. If you're going for it and especially if you are blipping the throttle on down changes you simply need the Sport setting.

Steve.

It won't be cheap from there, but his prep and warranty are amazing. I've never personally bought a car from John but I know plenty that have and they all rave about the buying and ownership experience.

resigner · 3 Jun 2019

Doubt very much you can find a Hartech rebuilt car for £20k, regardless of mileage.

Really, don't believe the hype. On here, we say 3 to 5% of cars actually suffer from Bore Scoring (spoke to someone in an OPC who said he had been told at a porsche day that porsche say 2%, proven by data), and an IMS can be changed, and probably has on most cars which need it, so DO NOT consider only rebuilt cars. Be warned, there are good engine builders, but there are also cowboys which might even make an engine worse!

A car in good condition with 100k miles is I think better than a trashed one which hasn't been looked after with 60k miles.

Don't want to burst your bubble, but they aren't expensive to run, but they really aren't cheap. Tyres, MP4S that is, all round is £800 odd. New brakes and discs all round is £1200 or so. I just had a major service done, £650, minor quite a bit cheaper. You should change the oil every year, not every 2 as porsce say, and so on, so just be aware.

Starting The Search For A 997.1 C2S - Hartech Rebuilt

MEames

New member

Gray79

Monza

Jam911

Albert Park

Alex

Nordschleife

MEames

New member

Alex

Nordschleife

Gray79

Monza

rob_p

Suzuka

Gray79

Monza

DucatiRob

Mugello

Tobyone

Nurburgring

Gray79

Monza

Steve800

New member

Gray79

Monza

resigner

Barcelona

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