Oil change tomorrow and I'll be sending it for an oil analysis. Car runs perfect and other than the obvious Porsche paranoia that afflicts us all I don't fret too much about it. It's done 89k, I do the oil twice a year and it has been well serviced previously. Following some recent posts, discussions and photos I am considering a rebuild, mostly thinking the crank and bearings will be the weakness on a 3.4. I'm guessing that new bearings and that it would be prudent to upgrade the ims to the Porsche later design. What sort of money is this likely to be? Has anyone done this kind of thing, ie preventative with no cylinder work
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Possible rebuild
- Thread starter jond58
- Start date
I'm going to post my opinion here .. i'm sure many people won,t agree but it's what i think ...
I don't feel that every engine when it hits 90 - 100K needs a rebuild .. i see many past this with no problems .. if it aint broke then don't fix it .
You may be unlucky .. people at 30K have been unlucky .
if you want to do this then who am i to argue .. but i don't like people throwing money at a problem when there isn't a problem .
if you drive it for another 50k and the crank turns out to be shot then isn't there a short block that fixes that ..
Hartech rebuild .. bless them ..huge respect .. it's about future problems .. a short Porsche block .. well , even if it's the same as the original will give you another 80 K plus ... it has the newer IMS though .
My feeling is and always has been to save you guys money .. that's why i come here night after night .
Im sure there will be comments but as always i will post what i think and leave it at that .
Good luck either way .
I don't feel that every engine when it hits 90 - 100K needs a rebuild .. i see many past this with no problems .. if it aint broke then don't fix it .
You may be unlucky .. people at 30K have been unlucky .
if you want to do this then who am i to argue .. but i don't like people throwing money at a problem when there isn't a problem .
if you drive it for another 50k and the crank turns out to be shot then isn't there a short block that fixes that ..
Hartech rebuild .. bless them ..huge respect .. it's about future problems .. a short Porsche block .. well , even if it's the same as the original will give you another 80 K plus ... it has the newer IMS though .
My feeling is and always has been to save you guys money .. that's why i come here night after night .
Im sure there will be comments but as always i will post what i think and leave it at that .
Good luck either way .
The 3.4 is likely to go on forever as long as you look after it like you do with oil changes. The only parts which would be a possible worry are the cam chain guides which can (and do) wear out. Just have your indie keep looking it over (properly) every oil change and you're good. No point doing a rebuild for rebuild's sake, unless you have money to burn. If that's the case, I have some great snake oil over here you might like to buy... :grin:
Ghianightmare
Montreal
- Joined
- 25 Apr 2017
- Messages
- 608
I work in commercial aviation - as I'm sure others on here do too - so my analogy is this -
On the 737-800 the Nose Landing Gear has an overhaul schedule of 10 years or 18,000 cycles (landings) - which ever comes first.
However, operators with large fleets and therefore a lot of overhauls and hence a lot of data have found that leaving it on wing to the Manufaturers limit means that when you strip it down, more parts are beyond economic repair and need to be replaced with new or good second hand. This drives up the cost considerably and therefore some large operators have determined (based on their data) that 16,000 cycles is the sweet spot to remove the nose landing gear for overhaul. Will the landing gear fail if you leave it on longer up to the OEM limit - no.
I liken Hartech to a large operator. They have a lot of data. From reading Baz's Posts over the years, his philosophy (based on data) seems to be that the sweet spot to rebuild a M96 is 100k miles as that is the point where most parts are reworkable. Does it mean if you don't do it that it will fail - no. Does it mean if you do it at 120k it will be more expensive - not necessarily.
The data just tells a story. Hence I agree with Demort and also with Hartech!
On the 737-800 the Nose Landing Gear has an overhaul schedule of 10 years or 18,000 cycles (landings) - which ever comes first.
However, operators with large fleets and therefore a lot of overhauls and hence a lot of data have found that leaving it on wing to the Manufaturers limit means that when you strip it down, more parts are beyond economic repair and need to be replaced with new or good second hand. This drives up the cost considerably and therefore some large operators have determined (based on their data) that 16,000 cycles is the sweet spot to remove the nose landing gear for overhaul. Will the landing gear fail if you leave it on longer up to the OEM limit - no.
I liken Hartech to a large operator. They have a lot of data. From reading Baz's Posts over the years, his philosophy (based on data) seems to be that the sweet spot to rebuild a M96 is 100k miles as that is the point where most parts are reworkable. Does it mean if you don't do it that it will fail - no. Does it mean if you do it at 120k it will be more expensive - not necessarily.
The data just tells a story. Hence I agree with Demort and also with Hartech!
-- 997 -- said:
I've seen this twice on Caymans .. one was due to carbon build up in the heads .. i'm afraid i never worked out what caused this issue and i spent an hour or two looking at adaption figures and actual values trying to figure it out .
Parts do indeed wear out .. do you pre-emit it and get a rebuild done .. or do you wait till there is a failure .. possibly many miles in the distance .. that is what this is all about and there is no answer .. things fail , nothing lasts forever .. but at what point do you start spending money .. there is imho no answer to this question .
monitor .. look for metal in the filter .. perhaps get an oil inspection done . i know nothing about this btw and see .. or have a rebuild . i don't have an answer im afraid .
I just post what i feel ... but Porsche state ... whether true or not .. it's a small percentage that fail .
MisterCorn
Fuji
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2011
- Messages
- 9,410
Oil analysis every oil change, oil change with good oil at least every year, look for changes in the oil analysis. Chain guides in the heads can be done at very low cost, it is when you split the bottom end that the costs go up very quickly.
Infrasilver is the man to give a good idea of rebuild costs.
MC
Infrasilver is the man to give a good idea of rebuild costs.
MC
^^^^ This.
Millers 10/50 regularly changed, cooling system functioning perfectly with an LTT. Then just an oil analysis every change.
Yes there's still the small risk of D chunking etc but how much risk do we need to try and dial out our lives? And at what cost?
A preventative rebuild could mean you're wasting thousands of pounds when your engine may have performed perfectly for another 100k miles.
Utter madness in my eyes but that's just my opinion and everyone has one. :thumb:
Millers 10/50 regularly changed, cooling system functioning perfectly with an LTT. Then just an oil analysis every change.
Yes there's still the small risk of D chunking etc but how much risk do we need to try and dial out our lives? And at what cost?
A preventative rebuild could mean you're wasting thousands of pounds when your engine may have performed perfectly for another 100k miles.
Utter madness in my eyes but that's just my opinion and everyone has one. :thumb:
Paynewright
Montreal
- Joined
- 17 Apr 2018
- Messages
- 541
I think it boils down to how we, as individuals, deal with risk. Some of us just deal with stuff as and when (if) it happens others want peace of mind and pre-empt things that 'may' happen.
I have a slightly different take on this in that I'm currently looking for a 3.2 M96 boxster engine to strip and rebuild. One with a ruined IMS would be perfect, as would most failures as long as the crank is likley to be ok.
My leggy boxster is on 160k miles now with no change in oil analysis and nothing in the filter, ever. The big end bearings won't last forever though and whilst she's running well with lots of miles on I intend to find a motor, rebuild it myself (plus/minus increasing capacity) and then put it into my 20 year old Boxster which will probably then outlive me.
My main reason for doing this is not preventative maintenance, its so I can learn to rebuild the engine myself. The car is my hobby and the expense is worth it to me just for this alone.
:thumb:
My leggy boxster is on 160k miles now with no change in oil analysis and nothing in the filter, ever. The big end bearings won't last forever though and whilst she's running well with lots of miles on I intend to find a motor, rebuild it myself (plus/minus increasing capacity) and then put it into my 20 year old Boxster which will probably then outlive me.
My main reason for doing this is not preventative maintenance, its so I can learn to rebuild the engine myself. The car is my hobby and the expense is worth it to me just for this alone.
:thumb:
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