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me&my997
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Mar 2019
Posts: 122
Location: Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject: Forum knowledge sought Re buying 997.1 Reply with quote

Hello chaps , back on the 911 trail after a 8 year absence . Can't remember previous password so joined up all fresh
I previously enjoyed a 964tip (loved it like a child ) & a aerokitted 996C2 ( didn't keep that long after realising my big mistake in selling the aircooled )
Anyways ive been deep in the hunt for some time , done due diligence with my homework studies & feel i'm 85% educated but a couple of points are niggling me bad & thus keeping my wallet from opening Smile
To keep it simple for now i have 2 questions id really appreciate forum thoughts on ( avid member of a similar forum & know what wealth of knowledge lies within these places )

1) lets say a 05/06 Carrera 3.6 or 3.8 had been well serviced & kept , even having a borescope inspection that was all good 10k ago , would that car if treat properly & cossetted be a better buy than a similar car without a borescope test as in could it still suffer a dreaded fail at any point ?

2) here's the big kicker that has been holding me back , i seem to read more & more that no matter what history , inspection or upkeep come 80k/100k /120k these engines WILL NEED a rebuild even if they show no outward signs of imminent failure ?

tia
 
  
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 408
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...Hartech have certainly stated as much on these pages; the crank bearings wear thin with the consequential potential to damage the very expensive crank shaft...plus tensioner pads, valve guides etc will be worn at 80k plus...

All of which doesn't mean that the car won't run just that the engine won't be performing at it's best...

Mine was rebuilt at a cost close to £15k (loads of parts replaced/reconditioned heads etc) and all I can say is that it feels very much tighter and fitter now and it felt good before

Very Happy
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15351
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest that based on your concerns no amount of mixed views are going to get you wallet open . So IMO your the prime candidate to go find a decent spec but leggy cheap (sub 20k ) ideally 16/18k car or one with a known fault and spend 12k getting it rebuilt and have a totally sound car for the next 100k miles for about 30k no sleepless nights dreaming of imminent doom Grin Thumb Thumb
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Frenchmeister
Barcelona


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 1333
Location: Beautiful Cumbria.

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finding a leggy car in good order may be hard, remember air cooled 911's usually need a rebuild at 100k plus and that is considerably more expensive as a rule of thumb than the water cooled cars.
Drove a friends 997.1 last night with 85k on the clock, perfect !
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me&my997
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Mar 2019
Posts: 122
Location: Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
I would suggest that based on your concerns no amount of mixed views are going to get you wallet open . So IMO your the prime candidate to go find a decent spec but leggy cheap (sub 20k ) ideally 16/18k car or one with a known fault and spend 12k getting it rebuilt and have a totally sound car for the next 100k miles for about 30k no sleepless nights dreaming of imminent doom Grin Thumb Thumb


Unfortunately i'm not looking for a forever car so see no benefit in that route , in fact at that spend id prefer to sink the £30k ( which is my upper budget incidentally) into a 20k 14/15plate 981
The car is purely a Sunday indulgence with occasional roadtrip , last 5 years ive had a few ///M cars & looking for a change of scene .
My op isn't to bolster my confidence , its merely to judge the opinion of those who have walked the walk & if the majority of opinion is that each & every 100k 997 is due a rebuild then ive heard enough , if however the underlying vibe is buy a decent one , maintain well , treat well & no reason why it will suddenly expire then i can make a rational & informed decision based on actual experience .
 
  
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me&my997
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Mar 2019
Posts: 122
Location: Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frenchmeister wrote:
Finding a leggy car in good order may be hard, remember air cooled 911's usually need a rebuild at 100k plus and that is considerably more expensive as a rule of thumb than the water cooled cars.
Drove a friends 997.1 last night with 85k on the clock, perfect !


Ive sifted through a fair few dogs but to be fair have come across 3 really fine examples around the 85k/88k mark . None of the sellers have had any interest whatsover barring myself & its hard to ignore the prices right now on 997.1 (& 997.2 for that matter) seem to be falling month on month .
Can i ask what your friend with his 85k car has planned by way of engine rebuild in the coming 10k/20k miles ?
 
  
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 1070
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can stretch to £30k, I saw high mile 997.2 manual carrera up for £30k this week.

Would deffo be worth looking at. Gen2 3.6 carrera is no slower than gen1 3.8 carrera S.

Two on pistonheads currently. Both private sale.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-997/porsche-911-997-gen-ii-carrera-2----------------2008/9451270


https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-997/porsche-911-997-gen-ii-carrera-2s----------------2009/9484127

I have no affiliation with either.

Happy shopping
Smile
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15351
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James thats a good suggestion as the OP is going to only use it as a Sunday driver so by the time he sells it ,it would be more like an ave miler and possibly suffer even less depreciation Grin but as he's mentioned 981 as an option then suggest he drives both as some love the mid engined cars and other must have the rear engine 911 but both are very different drives
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Ishay
Monza


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 238



PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your budgets within a sniff of a 997.2, so go that route
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Current: BMW X1 2.0d
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kiteral
Newbie


Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-997/-34-2009-porsche-997-2-carrera-3-8-s-pdk/9595617

If you could find some pound coins behind the sofa !
 
  
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Basalt911
Newbie


Joined: 12 Feb 2019
Posts: 46



PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

threads like this just make me want to keep my perfectly running 93k example forever....apparently, it's worth nothing now to anyone but me because of it's chocoloate engine and certain need for a re-build in the next 10 minutes

seriously OP, if you find a nice 85k miler with good history and which passes the well documented tests/checks, then go for it...they're fantastic cars and the low depreciation easily counters getting a lesser car
 
  
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Ishay
Monza


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 238



PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashgoods have a 997.2 C2 with 74k for 30k
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Current: BMW X1 2.0d
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RichardKS
Monza


Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 175



PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basalt911 wrote:
threads like this just make me want to keep my perfectly running 93k example forever....apparently, it's worth nothing now to anyone but me because of it's chocoloate engine and certain need for a re-build in the next 10 minutes

seriously OP, if you find a nice 85k miler with good history and which passes the well documented tests/checks, then go for it...they're fantastic cars and the low depreciation easily counters getting a lesser car


Indeed, our black 997S has just turned 80k miles. It doesn’t tap, smoke or use oil. It does have an LTT fitted, it’s had a bit of suspension work over the last few years, a new water pump a while back and just yesterday it got a couple of new engine mounts just as a precaution because they don’t last forever.

According to internet experts she’s worth about 50p.
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15351
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardKS wrote:
Basalt911 wrote:
threads like this just make me want to keep my perfectly running 93k example forever....apparently, it's worth nothing now to anyone but me because of it's chocoloate engine and certain need for a re-build in the next 10 minutes

seriously OP, if you find a nice 85k miler with good history and which passes the well documented tests/checks, then go for it...they're fantastic cars and the low depreciation easily counters getting a lesser car


Indeed, our black 997S has just turned 80k miles. It doesn’t tap, smoke or use oil. It does have an LTT fitted, it’s had a bit of suspension work over the last few years, a new water pump a while back and just yesterday it got a couple of new engine mounts just as a precaution because they don’t last forever.

According to internet experts she’s worth about 50p.


Richard I can give you 70p for it Grin Grin Grin
I Still struggle to get my head around the scare about these cars I had my gen1 for 4.5 years did 50k miles in it sold it on 89k miles had it scoped when sold it was clean as whistle and mine was one of the ultra chocolate tiptronics . yes of course no one wants to be in the unlucky few but the current widely accepted numbers are 8% of cars fail with IMS and 5% with borescore . that leaves a hell of a lot of good solid cars out there. and dont get me on the ultra reliable gen2 put aside the Hartech engine rebuild as thats not a weakness of the car and just cheap mods so we cannot count that cost, but the gearbox rebuild, new clutch and flywheel and coolant hoses that have been done in the past 12 months were not my fault and cost 9k so anything can happen if your unlucky .

Still on a positive note at least I haven't lost 20k in depreciation on a 40k BMW or Merc over the past 3 years and thats not 5% or 8% thats 100% of them nooo I wonder if there owners lie awake at night worrying about depreciation like 997 owners worry about the much less expensive engine rebuild on their cars with minimal depreciation. Question Dont know Cool Smile
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RichardKS
Monza


Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 175



PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
RichardKS wrote:
Basalt911 wrote:
threads like this just make me want to keep my perfectly running 93k example forever....apparently, it's worth nothing now to anyone but me because of it's chocoloate engine and certain need for a re-build in the next 10 minutes

seriously OP, if you find a nice 85k miler with good history and which passes the well documented tests/checks, then go for it...they're fantastic cars and the low depreciation easily counters getting a lesser car


Indeed, our black 997S has just turned 80k miles. It doesn’t tap, smoke or use oil. It does have an LTT fitted, it’s had a bit of suspension work over the last few years, a new water pump a while back and just yesterday it got a couple of new engine mounts just as a precaution because they don’t last forever.

According to internet experts she’s worth about 50p.


Richard I can give you 70p for it Grin Grin Grin
I Still struggle to get my head around the scare about these cars I had my gen1 for 4.5 years did 50k miles in it sold it on 89k miles had it scoped when sold it was clean as whistle and mine was one of the ultra chocolate tiptronics . yes of course no one wants to be in the unlucky few but the current widely accepted numbers are 8% of cars fail with IMS and 5% with borescore . that leaves a hell of a lot of good solid cars out there. and dont get me on the ultra reliable gen2 put aside the Hartech engine rebuild as thats not a weakness of the car and just cheap mods so we cannot count that cost, but the gearbox rebuild, new clutch and flywheel and coolant hoses that have been done in the past 12 months were not my fault and cost 9k so anything can happen if your unlucky .

Still on a positive note at least I haven't lost 20k in depreciation on a 40k BMW or Merc over the past 3 years and thats not 5% or 8% thats 100% of them nooo I wonder if there owners lie awake at night worrying about depreciation like 997 owners worry about the much less expensive engine rebuild on their cars with minimal depreciation. Question Dont know Cool Smile


I failed to mention that our car is a tip’ on purpose. Apparently, they’re really rubbish...
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15351
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardKS wrote:


I failed to mention that our car is a tip’ on purpose. Apparently, they’re really rubbish...


thats fine I can live with a tip the 70p still works and I dont need to lower it to 60p Grin Grin Grin Grin
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 408
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..I am cutting my own throat here, but; I will give you a quid...really can't say fairer than that?
 
  
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marcosman
Newbie


Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Lincolnshire


PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are previous posts on engine numbers for the cars that should have the later type IMS bearing, 06 onwards. From what I have read, these cars are not prone to the IMS bearing failures of the earlier cars. A car with a good service history, a clean bill of health from an inspection and bore scope check is more important than the mileage in my opinion.

I`m looking at 997.1`s and 80/90k mile cars appear to be the best value if you only want a weekend car to do about 3k - 5k a year in. It is quite a few years motoring if you buy a good one, plenty around at about £18k - £22k and that is the advertised price. To get a car with half the mileage you will pay a premium of £6k to £8k, that's a lot of cash for servicing/repairs of the higher mileage car. Even low mileage cars need to be serviced and repaired.
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7270
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a mechanic that works on these ... so what i see ..

Normal work .. service , faults etc .. i've seen 3 cars in 2 years that had obvious Bore score and one was a Cayman .

i've scoped maybe 15 cars for a PPI or a customer request in the last 2 years ..

Of those about 7 had some marks but only one had bore score that i considered to be bad .

Obviously i'm at an Indy these days so we see the older cars .. also the higher mileage ones .


I'm just one mechanic in one garage .. but its not a hell of a lot in 2 years considering how many cars come through our doors ..

Anyways , that's just what i've seen .. up to everyone else to make up their minds on how " fragile " these cars are .


EDIT ..

Just for info .. serious bore score dumps large amounts of oil into the inlet ports and the smoking is excessive to say the least . not really drivable on the roads but the car still runs ... that was the Cayman .

You can get when hot , knocking noises which is piston slap , seen it once .. not much smoke at all ... same sort of thing though .

I've also never seen a later type IMS let go or indeed any aftermarket ones fitted .
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Frenchmeister
Barcelona


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 1333
Location: Beautiful Cumbria.

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP friend has no plans for a rebuild, there is nothing wrong with it !
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