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pzero
General
General


Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 5496
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had two 997.1's over the years and suffered none of two thread title issues during my ownership. Anyone's guess if that remains the case with those two cars, I parted company with the 997.1 in 2012.
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a1butch
Trainee


Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Colchester


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x2 997's owned, C2 and C2S most recently both high(er) mileage cars @ 70k and 85k and no bore scoring or other major issues.

Its a shame about bore scoring as I personally think the probability of it happening in your ownership is extremely low if a: you had the car properly inspected prior to purchase and b: treat it with respect from cold.
These may not be the only preventative measures but in my opinion they hold true across all cars to avoid serious engine or mechanical issues.
 
  
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Robert SausageTrousers
Monza


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 221



PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My early days in Corrado G60's (supercharged) got me used to always warming the car before giving it beans, have done it ever since no matter what car I'm in. On that subject, i've read on here that people wait for the car to get to 80deg before opening it up a bit, I assume that's oil temp and not water temp?

As for the bore scoring issue, obviously it exists and just how common it is will never be known, my car suffered it a couple of thousand miles before I bought it so was subject to a £10k rebuild, however even so most on here would have me believe that it's not 'if' but 'when' it'll happen again as the rebuild was done at JAZ Porsche and not Hartech, so even with a freshly rebuilt engine I'm supposed to drive around on pins!

I've covered 10k in it since August and *touch wood* it's been absolutely fantastic, I enjoy every mile even with the knowledge that something *could* go wrong that'll cost me a pretty penny to sort out at any point ~ if I wasn't prepared for that then I wouldn't have bought a 15 yr old 911, it's part of the territory, if it'll spoil your enjoyment of the car then don't buy one, there's plenty of cars out there that are faster, more reliable and cheaper to run.
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 435
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
there's plenty of cars out there that are faster, more reliable and cheaper to run.


Can you name these mythical cars that can seat 4, do the traffic light 60mph dash under 5 seconds and top 170mph cheaper and more reliably than a used £20k 997? because I cant think of a single one.....
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ragpicker
Reims


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 4030
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
there's plenty of cars out there that are faster, more reliable and cheaper to run.


Can you name these mythical cars that can seat 4, do the traffic light 60mph dash under 5 seconds and top 170mph cheaper and more reliably than a used £20k 997? because I cant think of a single one.....


Yep, a used 996 Grin
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jwb1380
Newbie


Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Aberdeen


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2007 4S manual, 71k miles, IMS still ok and original (as far as I'm aware) and no sign of bore scoring, uses less than a litre of oil over 5k miles. Boroscoped last year and ok?

Get one with good history and inspection and enjoy...

I'm taking mine to Spa in October for a track day - can't wait.
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a1butch
Trainee


Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Colchester


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
there's plenty of cars out there that are faster, more reliable and cheaper to run.


Can you name these mythical cars that can seat 4, do the traffic light 60mph dash under 5 seconds and top 170mph cheaper and more reliably than a used £20k 997? because I cant think of a single one.....


Cat D TVR Cerbera Bandit
 
  
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Cannop
Trainee


Joined: 27 Feb 2018
Posts: 86
Location: Berks/Oxon border


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Who HAS NOT had borescoring or IMS failure Reply with quote

MattCPR wrote:
Official figures for people who have had catastrophic failures is around 5-10%, but if you look on the weird wonderful world of the internet you would believe that it’s actually about 5-10% of people who haven’t.


Can you share a link to the source for those official figures please? I didn't think Porsche would ever publish them!
 
  
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Robert SausageTrousers
Monza


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 221



PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
there's plenty of cars out there that are faster, more reliable and cheaper to run.


Can you name these mythical cars that can seat 4, do the traffic light 60mph dash under 5 seconds and top 170mph cheaper and more reliably than a used £20k 997? because I cant think of a single one.....


There are plenty of Audis,BMW's,Mercs etc etc that would fit the bill.
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 435
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
Hertsdriver wrote:
Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
there's plenty of cars out there that are faster, more reliable and cheaper to run.


Can you name these mythical cars that can seat 4, do the traffic light 60mph dash under 5 seconds and top 170mph cheaper and more reliably than a used £20k 997? because I cant think of a single one.....


There are plenty of Audis,BMW's,Mercs etc etc that would fit the bill.

M cars, RS Audis and AMG Mercs are unlikley to be cheaper to run in my experience...
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Porkaholic
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 294
Location: Cornwall

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

997.1 60,000 miles no problems then 997.2 15,000 miles so far so good!
Bovered not!
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996 Simon
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 118
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a1butch wrote:
Hertsdriver wrote:
Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
there's plenty of cars out there that are faster, more reliable and cheaper to run.


Can you name these mythical cars that can seat 4, do the traffic light 60mph dash under 5 seconds and top 170mph cheaper and more reliably than a used £20k 997? because I cant think of a single one.....


Cat D TVR Cerbera Bandit


2 off the top of my head.

R32 / R33 Skyline GTR or Twin Turbo Supra Question
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15466
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had my 2006 997.1 tip for 4.5 years no issues apart from replacing the coolant pipes and tandem pump no other issues at all I covered 50k miles in that time sold it had it scoped when sold and clean as a whistle. my 997.2 has had a Harlech rebuild but as others said that was down to the 200cell cats breaking up and getting injected on overrun and not an issue with the car itself.

these seem to be the accepted numbers 5% suffer Borescore and 8% suffer IMS failure now whether that % will go up or down as these cars age and mileage increases is anyones guess. what does seem to be widely agreed is that if you want a 997.1 with the lowest risk of issues then a post march 06 (newer ims bearing although some 05 cars have the newer bearing) 3.6 manual as the 3.6 engine is inherently stronger than the 3.8 and manual as the tips use 2nd gear to pull away in and it seems that adds strain to the engine. theres also the correct or not theory that a 3.6 buyer is less likely to thrash the car or be a more sympathetic owner than a 3.8 owner, my thoughts are this may have been the case when the cars were newer but now they are in the hands of enthusiasts the 3.8 owner is just as likely to be a sympathetic owner than a 3.6 owner.

You must remember that these cars are now 15 years old and many are getting close to 100k miles and you must expect a few issues with a high performance car of that age/mileage .
What many are doing is buying a leggy early car for under £20k and getting it rebuilt straight away or driving it knowing they may need to get a rebuild at some point and having the funds to do it should they need to . Seems like a fair idea to know you have a solid rebuild 997.1 for £30k ish. Thumb

I also think there will be a lot of 997.1 that get to a point in age or miles that will need a rebuild like any car of that age miles and will have never had either of these issues .

The key is buy eyes open and know exactly what your buying into as many high end cars getting a bit older come with some known potential risks and if you cannot stomach that then you must avoid all of those marques.
KIA are doing some good deals at the moment with long warranties
Grin Grin
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 974
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Encouraging to read that the public perception about the prospects are much more reasonable than they used to be and a general acceptance that one day more will need fixing.

That is why we have developed the oversized engine versions because if you wait until with high mileage they score and fail you may also need a new crank whereas a pre-emptive rebuild might not be justifiable if all you get back is a more reliable version with the same performance but might encourage some owners if they get more performance.


Interesting comparisons between 3.6 and 3.8 owners. When newer 3.6 owners were less likely to go for performance (satisfied with the 3.6) but now a 3.6 rebuilt as a 3.9 offers 3.8 performance and is nicer to drive in the mid-range, while the 3.9 Cayman S is really fast and exciting.


Baz
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7228
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
Hertsdriver wrote:
Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
there's plenty of cars out there that are faster, more reliable and cheaper to run.


Can you name these mythical cars that can seat 4, do the traffic light 60mph dash under 5 seconds and top 170mph cheaper and more reliably than a used £20k 997? because I cant think of a single one.....


There are plenty of Audis,BMW's,Mercs etc etc that would fit the bill.

M cars, RS Audis and AMG Mercs are unlikley to be cheaper to run in my experience...


Jaguar XKR. Mine was very reliable, needed nothing in 60k miles other than routine maintenance.
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