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996 C4S vs 997 C4S (gen 1)

Manabana

Active member
Joined
22 Jan 2013
Messages
29
Hi,

I'm in the market for a Porsche, first time buyer. I've done a fair amount of research.

I've been looking at 996 C4S vs 997 C4S, any steer on which way to go. I like both, the 996's seem marginally cheaper but seems like its rising in price every year. Price is not the deciding factor its what offers the better experience.

Is there anybody who has experienced both that could comment?

Most videos, articles seem to compare the 996 C4S with 997 C2S Gen 1, I'm wondering how it stacks with 996 C4S vs 997 C4S gen 1.

I can't afford 997 Gen 2 cars. I'm looking to spend in a range of £18-£23K.

Mileage would be preferably below 100K.
Gearbox has to be manual
Body is coupe
Preferred colour, Grey or Silver


It would be a weekend car, I commute by train.
 
:welcome: back. Where did the last 6 years go?

At your budget the decision is very much down to your personal preference - i.e whether you want a car that has already achieved 'modern classic' status or a newer car that is probably better value for money as a car to simply drive.

The 996 and 997 each have their own fan clubs normally based upon the headlights and the style of the interior.

The 996C4S is more universally liked by all because of the wide back end with the full width reflector. Asking prices for this model have crossed over with the 997C2S - hence why you see comparison tests of the two.

A Gen1 997C4S of the same mileage/history etc would normally be a little dearer than either of the above as it has the wider body and was more expensive when new. It seems to lack the appeal of the 996C4S as it doesn't have the red reflector.

There's loads of all these cars around within your budget but your research should already have made you aware of the caution with which you should approach the purchase of any of them.

Happy Hunting.
 
You'll get a lot of different opinions- you have to drive both and decide!
A few thoughts...
- 996 4S is a 'distinct' turbo-bodied model with the full width rear reflector, special suspension settings, turbo brakes etc setting it apart. It has become a bit of a 'collectors' model and as such, some vendors are pushing their luck on price... The 997 4S is a wider version of the 2S, whilst a great looking car is perhaps not as distinctive.
- 997 3.8S has more power
- 997 S has more standard kit inc xenons and PASM adaptive suspension.
- 3.8 can be more susceptible to bore-score, so if you are serious about a car I would recommend a bore scope by someone who knows what to look for. I would probably have this done with a 996 4S too, to be on the safe side.

For a weekend car, are you particularly wedded to a 4WD?

A member has a great sounding and sorted 2S for sale in the 'for sale' section- maybe worth considering?
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1461165#1461165
 
As said you will get lots of opinions , as its a weekend toy ,I can only assume you want a wide body as the look appeals to you, as the narrow body RWD C2S is a better weekend drivers car than the AWD 4S .

As I am sure you are aware both the 996.2 and 997.1 have in small numbers maybe 5/6% been suffering with borescore . this does mean that 94/95% haven't but its still a factor to consider. also the early 997.1 has got the potential for IMS failure numbers banded about for that issue are 8%.

So assuming you want a Wide Body car for the look or the AWD then to minimise any risks I would be looking at the 997.1 3.6 C4 manual the engine is stronger and less prone to scoring the manual also is less prone to scoring and gears for a weekend toy . and look for one with the engine number that has the newer IMS bearing post march 06 is the accepted date they all had the newer bearing but some mid/late 05 cars have the newer bearing so the only way to really know is by engine number.

the 3.6 engine is as much as most need to bring big grins and the C4 997.1 is more likely to be in your price range than the C4S.

If you want a car that has less driver aids and is a more focussed drivers car then the 996 but in the AWD version a lot of the pluses for a more linear drivers car are lost . So in Summery given you want wide body and your budget my thoughts are 997.1 3.6 C4 if you want a more liner drivers car then forget the wide body and look at 996 RWD cars .

Or if you want a bit of a mix of all things then the 997.1 C2 or C2S are the cars to look at Wider that the 996 but still RWD for driving fun , they lose some of the liner driver focus the 996 has due to more modern driver aids but would still offer more than any of the AWD versions.

hope my 2p hasn't confused you even more :grin: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 
Just for reference, I have a Manual E46 M3 (2002) and a Subaru WRX (Blobeye) as my other weekenders, the Porsche will replace the WRX in the garage.

I'll confess, I do love the shape of the 996 C4S, then again for the same money a newer 997 could be had and the 997 C4S rear end since looks pretty good too.

The issue with 997's is virtually everyone I've been to see has either had an engine rebuild, an engine exchange or some other high ticket item like a gearbox gone on it. It doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the 997 gen.1's.


I'm liking the 996 C4S more and more, the front is a bit 'meh' but its a great looking car otherwise. I tend to do long weekend road-trips, sometimes clocking up a lot of motorway miles, I need the balance between comfort and excitement and that includes in the winter.

I can see 997 sellers are more likely to take an offer where 996 sellers are not, so there is an indication which direction prices are heading.
 
Manabana said:
Just for reference, I have a Manual E46 M3 (2002) and a Subaru WRX (Blobeye) as my other weekenders, the Porsche will replace the WRX in the garage.

I'll confess, I do love the shape of the 996 C4S, then again for the same money a newer 997 could be had and the 997 C4S rear end since looks pretty good too.

The issue with 997's is virtually everyone I've been to see has either had an engine rebuild, an engine exchange or some other high ticket item like a gearbox gone on it. It doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the 997 gen.1's.


I'm liking the 996 C4S more and more, the front is a bit 'meh' but its a great looking car otherwise. I tend to do long weekend road-trips, sometimes clocking up a lot of motorway miles, I need the balance between comfort and excitement and that includes in the winter.

I can see 997 sellers are more likely to take an offer where 996 sellers are not, so there is an indication which direction prices are heading.

Don't be put off a car thats had a rebuild as they will have had the essential bullet proofing done in many cases and also remember this when a 997.1 at 22k to 25k goes pop it gets rebuilt thats why you see so many , when a 12k to 14k 996 goes pop it gets scrapped thats why you dont see so many , it has very little to do with having a more reliable engine and is just economics. :thumb:

the 996 prices will flatten out soon, again its the effects of economy and supply and demand all of a sudden people realised you could get a relatively reliable water-cooled reasonably modern tech 911 for 10/12k so people with a budget in the teens suddenly started buying them , as they became more popular the prices started to increase , but they will flatten out as in most cases unless your a true enthusiast the 997.1 looks a better car, so given the option of a 997.1 or a 996 for the same money mr. ave petrol head will go for a 997.1 this will have the effect of holding the 997.1 prices and seeing the 996 prices soften. then the next thing to happen will be the 997.2 prices will slide as more 991.1s slip into the price previously taken by the 997.2 this will have the effect of softening the 997.1 prices and intern further softening the 996 prices until all of a sudden you can get into a 996 for10/12k again and then the cycle goes round again :grin: :grin:
 
@phill 997, from your handle I take it you have a 997?

Thats quite an interesting prediction you making there.

What will happen for sure is more 997's will continue to appear on the market, as you said gen 2's eventually will put pressure on the gen 1's, the same thing is happening in the M3 market, its flooding with E92's, causing the E46 buyer to think twice.
Its a case of waiting it out and seeing if the 997 gen 1 C4S drops into my price bracket, I'm not willing to pay a premium amount for a 996 C4S, if I could buy a decent 997 C4S for not much more.
It looks like theres been a bit of a spike last year in prices, people may through the media felt a perception that the 996 is undervalued and started asking more for their cars. The problem is there is a lot of 996's around and the 997 supply is already outstripping demand, somewhere there is a correction on the cards, I'll take your advice, keep my powder dry, wait and see how things pan out.
javascript:emoticon(':bandit:')
 
T8 said:
:welcome: back. Where did the last 6 years go?

At your budget the decision is very much down to your personal preference - i.e whether you want a car that has already achieved 'modern classic' status or a newer car that is probably better value for money as a car to simply drive.

The 996 and 997 each have their own fan clubs normally based upon the headlights and the style of the interior.

The 996C4S is more universally liked by all because of the wide back end with the full width reflector. Asking prices for this model have crossed over with the 997C2S - hence why you see comparison tests of the two.

A Gen1 997C4S of the same mileage/history etc would normally be a little dearer than either of the above as it has the wider body and was more expensive when new. It seems to lack the appeal of the 996C4S as it doesn't have the red reflector.

There's loads of all these cars around within your budget but your research should already have made you aware of the caution with which you should approach the purchase of any of them.

Happy Hunting.

@T8 looooooooool... I completely forgot I even used to post on this forum and tried to join as a new member until I discovered the username was taken already... by me (':floor:')
Anyway reading over my posts from 6 years ago !!! Its seems a lot of water has passed under the bridge... after my last post 6 years ago!! I ran around in a Honda Accord for 2 years, (excellent M25 commuter car I bought for £3k, because I got a job that involved me driving 100 miles a day).
When I changed my job I didn't need a commuter car, so I gave the Accord to my Wife, sold the BMW 130i and bought a M3 E46, my wife got fed up of the Accord for the school run, so I leased her a new VW Tiguan, changed my job also bought a house, SORNED and parked up my M3 in the double garage that came with the house because I started commuting by train.
Then I got bored again and bought a Subaru WRX, chipped it, changed the interior to leather, made some discreet mods, air filters, exhaust and then got slightly bored of that, it got parked in my garage as well
Then I went and bought a VW Beetle classic 1974 to play around with, rebuilt the engine, brakes and suspension and eventually got frustrated and bored of that, so I took the Subaru back out of the garage and put the Beetle in the garage.
During this time my daughter started and finished high school and I still didn't get round to buying a Porsche!! (':sad:')

Six years after I first had the thought, my mate bought a 997 Turbo last month, which prompted me to start looking for Porsches again, a bit older and wiser.

This year I'm planning to sell the Beetle maybe claw back around £4k from selling that to put towards a Porsche, hopefully it won't be 2025 before that happens.

time waits for no man !!!
 
Manabana said:
@phill 997, from your handle I take it you have a 997?

Thats quite an interesting prediction you making there.

What will happen for sure is more 997's will continue to appear on the market, as you said gen 2's eventually will put pressure on the gen 1's, the same thing is happening in the M3 market, its flooding with E92's, causing the E46 buyer to think twice.
Its a case of waiting it out and seeing if the 997 gen 1 C4S drops into my price bracket, I'm not willing to pay a premium amount for a 996 C4S, if I could buy a decent 997 C4S for not much more.
It looks like theres been a bit of a spike last year in prices, people may through the media felt a perception that the 996 is undervalued and started asking more for their cars. The problem is there is a lot of 996's around and the 997 supply is already outstripping demand, somewhere there is a correction on the cards, I'll take your advice, keep my powder dry, wait and see how things pan out.
javascript:emoticon(':bandit:')

:floor: yes had a 997.1 for 4.5 years and now a 997.2 . I think your right to take your time and watch the market , the used car market is quite flat at the moment ,it usually has a little spike in the spring as the weather gets better but this may this year be affected by that thing thats happening between us and the EU as there so much uncertainty about it.
But your well placed and have a pretty clear idea of what you want , to be able to move swiftly if the right priced spec car appears or if the market suddenly gets a positive move on it and prices start to go up.

I would still have a think about the 997.1 C4 3.6 its basically an up powered version of whats in the 996.2 3.6 but in a wide bodied 997.1 and still more car than most of us can handle . but will be closer to your budget :thumb: :thumb:
 
As the owner of a midnight blue 997.1 with sport design wheels I'm very biased, but that 997 C4S looks like a lot of car for the cash. It doesn't have a sports exhaust or sports seats, but if it's got a decent service history and looks like it's been cared for I'd be in that like a shot!

Car number 3 has yellowed headlights and looks a bit unkempt - but it might not be as bad as the photos make out.

It's very easy for a dealer to polish a turd, get a decent independent inspection on anything of this age, mileage and money.

The bottom line is drive both, then buy the one that you like the best. There is a lot going for both variants... and plenty of horror stories about unreliability for both too! The 996 C4S is a thing of beauty, but you have to really really want that particular model to buy one over a 997.
 
Phil 997 said:
when a 997.1 at 22k to 25k goes pop it gets rebuilt thats why you see so many , when a 12k to 14k 996 goes pop it gets scrapped thats why you dont see so many , it has very little to do with having a more reliable engine and is just economics. :thumb:

£12-£14k 996s are usually the gen 1 3.4 and as a rule don't suffer from the dreaded borescore (& goes pop) of the 3.6 and even more so 3.8 and even more so 3.8 tiptronic - that's why you see so many. Same goes for IMS bearings - the dual row in the 3.4 cars are the best ones.
 
Production numbers will have a small bearing on any residuals.

997.1 C4S = 15056
996 C4S = 12481
 
Phil 997 said:
when a 997.1 at 22k to 25k goes pop it gets rebuilt thats why you see so many , when a 12k to 14k 996 goes pop it gets scrapped thats why you dont see so many , it has very little to do with having a more reliable engine and is just economics. :thumb:

I did start to trawl through 'How Many Left' to see how many of each were left but quickly lost interest.

I suspect fewer 996's survive as a percentage of build, but that oft quoted saying '70% of Porsches ever built are still on the road' must have a perverse influence, surely?

I bought ten 205 GTi's recently and went for really early cars ('84, '85, '86) as their survival rates are in the tens. Go for a '90/'91 and you're in the thousands hence perceived value of the early cars is greater through rarity.

I'm not so sure such a marked difference applies to 911's of this era though.

Anyway - OP, buy the one you like. The best you can afford.

I did - a nice 996 C4S in great condition. Not the cheapest by any means and probably a foolish 'investment' but I'm loving the ownership experience so far.
 

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