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996Jane
Newbie


Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Sell as is or smarten it up? Reply with quote

So, last time I posted was over 3 years ago after my 1999 996 Carrera 4 had returned from a full engine rebuild at Hartech after cylinder head failure and now we are thinking of selling.

However, the car has some cosmetic issues and we can’t decide whether to try and sell as is or get the things done first. It needs some paint work - front end has crazing on it, which was there when we bought it over four years ago so has obviously deteriorated and does need sorting. There is also some lacquer peel on the drivers door and mirror. It also needs the front seats replaced or repaired as the leather is badly cracked and split in a couple of places.

Its done around 116k Miles, less than 20k since the rebuild and at the same time Hartech did the IMS, repaired the air con and replaced the two rear silencers.

So what would you do? How much would it be worth as is and how much if the cosmetic bits were sorted? I realise there are lots of what ifs but just looking for ideas really.

Cheers

Jane
 
  
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Osh
Sepang


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 2889
Location: Bristol


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lady 996 owner...??

Phil will be along presently.... Floor


Osh
 
  
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996Jane
Newbie


Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osh wrote:
A lady 996 owner...??

Phil will be along presently.... Floor


Osh


Ha, I’m no lady 😜
 
  
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Counter Of Beans
Monza


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 233
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that now is a tough time to sell, and cosmetic problems such as those you describe would deter quite a few buyers, and/or lead to low offers. They'd put me off, for example. Sorry. Value as is.....I imagine £12 - 14k in a private sale.

I presume that a reputable dealer would fix the issues in prepping the car for sale. Since they are the sales experts, I'd advise to do what they would do.

As to what it's then worth; hmmm, private sale, proper Hartech rebuild and sorted cosmetically, my guess is £14 - £16k. This is based on a quick glance at Autotrader; I'm not a dealer!
 
  
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Dammit
Watkins Glen


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2089



PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt that fixing the issues would increase the sale value that you realise - but it might make it sell faster.

It's over the 100k mile mark, which will rule it out for many (note: I'm not saying that's the wise thing to do, just an observation on the market), unless it's perceived as a great deal.

I'd put it up for sale for a price that is based on similar age/mileage cars on Autotrader and see what happens - if it's not moving, then consider getting the car to a paintshop for the front end tidy up it sounds like it needs.

Or, total up the cost of paint and seats and knock that off the asking price, see if that shifts it first, then do the work?
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996Jane
Newbie


Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks both.

I realise it’s obviously going to have to go reasonably cheaply due to age, mileage etc but thought the ‘warts and all’ approach might be more desirable than a cheapish cover up?

I think we will advertise as it is initially and then, as you suggest, if it doesn’t move, we will have to get it sorted out - although, if I get it sorted, I’ll probably end up keeping it 😀

Thanks again.

Jane
 
  
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Ghianightmare
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Posts: 265
Location: Dublin


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest spending some money to get it professionally detailed. While it may not increase the sale value, a clean nice looking car, albeit with some specific paint issues, will sell faster than something that looks like the owner is tired of it and doesn’t care.

I have sold a number of classic and modern cars privately over the past few years, and while I always maintain my cars to the max, I found that most people buying a car, want to feel happy that they bought it, and a nice shiny car means they can show it off straight away. It didn’t matter how well it was maintained, if it wasn’t nice and shiny too, they would hum and haw about it.

I also found that when I had cleaned them and fixed the niggles I had lived with, I didn’t want to sell them Rolling Eyes

You might also find that when it is professionally cleaned, that it problems you think are there now, aren’t that bad and can be touched up.

Best of luck
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2002 Seal Grey C4S
 
  
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MaxA
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1433
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd get it sorted or you'll just get frustrated by all the low ball bottom feeder offers; not that I frequent 'for sale' threads (I've no interest in all the valuation threads as I don't live in the UK), it looks like it's a tough market out there, and for any car to sell, it needs to be cosmetically sorted as well as not literally dropping oil and coolant on the ground.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2872


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would do as said tot up the costs to make it perfect then knock them off similar priced cars, write an honest advert should sell quick.

Ignore chancers - you will get them even if the car is mint.

Makes no sense to do the work and price it high unless you are a dealer paying trade rates.

I seek out cars like this, buy them and drive them. I don't care the paint is imperfect as it will get more imperfect in my ownership - I buy my cars to drive not to look at.
_________________
My special order MY99 Vesuvious Charcoal 996 | Clutch, Fly RMS IMS AOS Job |
Steering Rack Hard Lines | Air Con Compressor / System
 
  
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rdodger
Monza


Joined: 08 Apr 2018
Posts: 159
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it sounds like a good buy for this time of year. Mechanically good but a little worn sounds like the perfect daily.
 
  
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 410
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not disagreeing with any of the comments already stated. However, one of the strengths of the Porsche brand is that it means different things to different buyers.

I friend I know loves to just trickle his car around and wash / polish the hell out of it. Not my bag but if it makes him happy etc.......

One of the main strengths of the OP's car for me is the Hartech engine rebuild.(depending on what was actually done of course) I'm more than happy to treat the rest as a project, replacing worn seats with a set of buckets for example.

The pool of buyers maybe smaller but very interested and determined not to miss to a car with engine rebuild and strong mechanicals rather than pretty bodywork.

Hard to give a value, but a cheapish front bumper blow over, and a few hours with a DIY leather restore kit, and a good detail may polish a couple of thousand back into the asking price. £15 -£16k ????
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skinny_monkey
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 406



PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hartech engine imo adds only a small amount to the value of the car as very few people know what that really means they just see a 10k bill and get scared.

Much easier to see a tatty car than shiny engine internals
 
  
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2952
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are enough discerning buyers out there to make your car very saleable as is.
I too would be much more interested in a Hartech rebuild than shiny bumpers and seats like new.
You just need the right buyer to come along.
I think Hartech would be well enough known to anyone who goes to the bother of reading PistonHeads or 911UK .. that’s a pretty big audience.

Best of luck with sale, if I were still looking I’d be sending you a PM...

Maybe a couple of pics on this thread mightn’t do any harm either Wink
_________________
'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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coullstar
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1409
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I essentially bought a car like yours. It's had 30k on a new engine but on 90k with a few bodywork issues. Main reason was piece of mind and that I could work on the bodywork over time whilst enjoying the car for what it is.

Try as it is then if no luck take it off the market then get it tarted up a bit.
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HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6291
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ballcock wrote:
Maybe a couple of pics on this thread mightn’t do any harm either Wink


OF THE CAR Hand

Grin

I'd love a Hartech car, cheaper the better so I can use it as a track sl4g Cool

Thumb
 
  
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2952
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSC911 wrote:
ballcock wrote:
Maybe a couple of pics on this thread mightn’t do any harm either Wink


OF THE CAR Hand

Grin



Either or ... Whistling
_________________
'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6745
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have full details of the work done by Hartech? If it had a rebuild due to a cracked head and at the same time the IMS bearing was replaced, then assuming that the cylinders / pistons were not touched at all then IMO that will make next to no difference to the value. If however it has had new liners and pistons fitted by Hartech, or has had rings fitted to keep the bores round then it would make it more desirable.

Photos please, of the list of work by Hartech...

MC
 
  
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996Jane
Newbie


Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated.

I’ll dig out the details of the work that Hartech did and a couple of pics for anyone interested. I do know that the remaining cylinders were strengthened & overhauled and piston rings replaced ...

Tbh, I’m not expecting to get top dollar for it but I would have thought the rebuild would make it a slightly less risky foray into 911 ownership than one without?

Oh, it’s an auto by the way 🤭

Thanks again,

Jane
 
  
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Griffter
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 272



PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the rebuild addressed perceived weaknesses of the 3.4 then there may be some value in it, so you’re looking for evidence that the IMS bearing was upgraded to the later, larger unit and that the bores have been converted to “closed deck”. Both these operations involve machining. If it was just taken apart and put back together again, even with some new bits, then sadly it’s just an old car with a new engine.

Whilst I agree with all the comments above, personally I doubt you’ll get anything like your money back on cosmetic improvements. Far better to sell as is (blank canvas) IMHO. It may be a more limited market, but you can open that back up with a lower price and the knowledge the car owes you less. Again, sadly, it’s not the perceived most popular/desirable spec so I think your looking at £12k tops to be honest, probably a lot less given your description of the leather and crazed paintwork.

I really wish you well with but unless you can make anything of the Hartech rebuild, best to sell quickly with no further investment IMHO. Get a years MOT on it though. You’ll always get that back (assuming a pass).
 
  
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996Jane
Newbie


Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crikes, that went downhill fast - it’s not some leaky out heap that won’t pass an MOT, it just needs some TLC cosmetically 😂

Thanks everyone for your input and suggestions, we shall put an ad together and see what happens 👍

Cheers

Jane
 
  
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