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andyobro
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Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 72
Location: Poole


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Crazy idea? Electric AC Compressor and Steering Pump. Reply with quote

Hi All,

I have an idea in my head, wondering if anyone else has had the same thought or implemented the thought. Or am I just nuts!

It goes like this.... the AC compressor and the steering pump both sit in the back congesting the pretty engine and robbing power from the engine. The pipes to both have to run front to back.

Why not have electric AC compressor and electric steering pumps housed in the spare wheel well. Move weight forward, get rid of lengthy pipes. The battery is right there to power them.

A very quick search around for possible solutions and I have found Tesla electric AC compressors are around 120 quid second hand, and mini electric steering pump around the same. I realize this is all non standard and purists will be have mild palpitations.

There seems to be so many positives, the only negative the lose of the spare wheel, maybe alternator is not up to the job? Wiring in should be pretty easy as they are both just simple pumps. Getting the required pipes made for the fluids is easy.

Positives.......
Less weight at the back.
Less plumbing to go wrong.
Easier maintenance on the engine.
The pumps are at the end of the car they supply fluids too.
Pretty engine bay.
10-15 BHP power not wasted.
Could be done so that everything can be returned to standard

So please comment and shoot me down if you think I am nuts??
Dont know

Cheers Andy
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1502
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be all in favour of a solution that removes/replaces all the AC gear with newer tech. Not sure I'd complicate it with steering pump, too.

I've never really got my head around why the AC isn't replaced wholesale with a new system rather than just replacing like for like.
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 295
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonny Hart at Classicretrofit has developed a system for 911s up to the 3.2 models. I understand he made a system for the Gunterwerks car which is based on the 993 platform, but he hasn't come back to me about whether he will release a 993 system for widespread purchase.
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alex yates
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 15581
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robbing Peter to pay Paul. The lecky consumption would put a much greater load on the alternator and would suck more power out the engine.
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andyobro
Trainee


Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 72
Location: Poole


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff chaps. I shall keep exploring the idea.

I believe the 997 cup cars had an electric pump in the front for PS, so not such a silly idea.

Not sure 'robbing peter to pay paul' is correct, here's my theory.

Even when the AC is not running (clutch disengaged), the belt and and drive pulley are connected to the engine and create some sort of power drag. The Electric compressor would not at all.

The steering pump is only really under load at low speeds, so minimum draw on the alternator majority of the time, plus you have the capacitive storage of the battery to even out the power requirements. Again belts and drive pulley are always connected inducing constant power drag.

There seem to be a good few cars that have changed to an electric power steering pump, remember the rack is still hydraulic, so no change in feel like the full electric systems.

Cheers Andy
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andyobro
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Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 72
Location: Poole


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutton wrote:
Jonny Hart at Classicretrofit has developed a system for 911s up to the 3.2 models. I understand he made a system for the Gunterwerks car which is based on the 993 platform, but he hasn't come back to me about whether he will release a 993 system for widespread purchase.


Thanks for the lead on Classicretrofit

Here is the page on the compressor they do. http://classicretrofit.com/electrocooler-compressor-and-ecu/

My theory seems to be well founded.

Cheers Andy
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 295
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with your project Andy.

I like the idea of relocating the compressor - removing it from behind the rear axle and putting that weight somewhere between the axles.

Let us know how you get on.
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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
Robbing Peter to pay Paul. The lecky consumption would put a much greater load on the alternator and would suck more power out the engine.

Indeed you couldn't run an RS pulley and each transition of energy incurs an energy loss, kinetic to electrical to hydraulic power, you'd end up with a net power loss.
Track cars may run electric PAS but don't have a/c. A few in the States have fitted electric PAS on their track cars because they have done an engine swap and it's simpler to do.
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6747
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be interested to see the numbers but suspect electric PAS is more efficient as it only uses power when needed, unlike a mechanical one which is running the pump continuously.

I am looking at it for my 996 C4.

MC
 
  
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andyobro
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Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 72
Location: Poole


PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endoman wrote:
alex yates wrote:
Robbing Peter to pay Paul. The lecky consumption would put a much greater load on the alternator and would suck more power out the engine.

Indeed you couldn't run an RS pulley and each transition of energy incurs an energy loss, kinetic to electrical to hydraulic power, you'd end up with a net power loss.
Track cars may run electric PAS but don't have a/c. A few in the States have fitted electric PAS on their track cars because they have done an engine swap and it's simpler to do.


I get your thoughts on the loses, hmmmmm Smile
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alex yates
Le Mans
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was just gonna post what Endoman posted. If it was that easy we'd all have electric cars with dynmos on the wheels to charge the batteries.
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1502
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.facebook.com/groups/aircooledporsche/permalink/10161198728845721/
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andyobro
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Location: Poole


PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobesetc wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/aircooledporsche/permalink/10161198728845721/


I'm not a member so cant see the content, is it interesting?
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, some good pics of the Electric Aircon kit from Classic Retrofit being installed in a nicely painted RSR '87 backdate.
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Leosayer
Montreal


Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 517
Location: NE London

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some info here might be of use:

https://ferdinandmagazine.com/electric-porsche-911-air-con

The 72 911 in the Chris Harris YouTube clip below had electric air con fitted by Tuthill. Can't find any details on that though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMHrYiNFIQM
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andyobro
Trainee


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Posts: 72
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the links chaps Smile
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andyobro
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the links chaps Smile
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